22-rimfire
Member
Good insight into the insurance issue.
New Tactic by the Anti-Gunners
- Thread starter AntiSpin
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ccsniper
member
Insurance is nothing more than a government enforced racket anyway so I would expect the gubment to do something so tasteless.
Pointshoot
Member
I'm not a mind reader, maybe you know what they really meant. <sarc>
Then again, there are so many dumb ideas floated out there . . . that you really never know for sure if they were kidding or not. I have heard proposals to place high taxes on ammo and magazines.
Then again, there are so many dumb ideas floated out there . . . that you really never know for sure if they were kidding or not. I have heard proposals to place high taxes on ammo and magazines.
Just goes to show that whoever thought up this nonsense didn't trouble to check any facts and statistics before shooting their mouth off.
I guess the real reason is that insurance would probably require registration, so they are either really dumb or quite smart.
I guess the real reason is that insurance would probably require registration, so they are either really dumb or quite smart.
JRH6856
Member
Those who are in favor of firearms liability insurance seem to think it is needed, at least in part, because gun owners are careless and don't keep their guns properly secured. That means they are apt to get stolen. As to who would pay for the uninsured criminal use of a stolen firearm, that would be the gun's (careless) registered owner.
OptimusPrime
Member
Goodness, the full moon is affecting some of us more than others.
Sarcasm in earlier posts, yes.
The OP isn't advancing an idea, just opening a discussion that he's heard of. It's a discussion board, not a forum to tell someone it's a dumb idea. Talking over what we've heard, exploring the pros and cons, keeping in touch with current events.
We're all on the same side here. Unless we aren't.....
Sarcasm in earlier posts, yes.
The OP isn't advancing an idea, just opening a discussion that he's heard of. It's a discussion board, not a forum to tell someone it's a dumb idea. Talking over what we've heard, exploring the pros and cons, keeping in touch with current events.
We're all on the same side here. Unless we aren't.....
Well, as the OP, I have to say that I do think that it is a bad idea.
It's clear from the discussions that I've listened to among antis who are promoting this, that they want it as a method for discouraging the possession and use of firearms by making them difficult and costly.
It's clear from the discussions that I've listened to among antis who are promoting this, that they want it as a method for discouraging the possession and use of firearms by making them difficult and costly.
Tom from WNY
Member
Legislation to require liability insurance is in play in MA.
Right now, as we blog, there is a proposal in MA to require liability insurance for firearms (owners?). I am busy enough with our issue in NYS to follow this proposal, but it is apparently serious enough that the insurance industry (I work in it.) is looking at the preliminary requirements.
The poster who indicated that the insurance industry is statistically driven is quite correct. It is also self-regulated (to a large degree) and driven by the legal environment of contracts and torts. Oddly enough, Government tries to stay the heck out of the insurance industry because it really works well on it's own. What we, gun owners need to be careful of is this: if liability insurance becomes a requirement; then we will need documentation of training and storage. Liability won't be important concerning types of firearms as that is property or inland marine coverage (for physical loss); however whether or not you target shoot, hunt, carry for self-defense, collect or other activity will be the driver. Currently, most homeowner's policies will deny any coverage for a self-defense use as self-defense is a deliberate act and deliberate acts are usually excluded in liability policies.
Right now, as we blog, there is a proposal in MA to require liability insurance for firearms (owners?). I am busy enough with our issue in NYS to follow this proposal, but it is apparently serious enough that the insurance industry (I work in it.) is looking at the preliminary requirements.
The poster who indicated that the insurance industry is statistically driven is quite correct. It is also self-regulated (to a large degree) and driven by the legal environment of contracts and torts. Oddly enough, Government tries to stay the heck out of the insurance industry because it really works well on it's own. What we, gun owners need to be careful of is this: if liability insurance becomes a requirement; then we will need documentation of training and storage. Liability won't be important concerning types of firearms as that is property or inland marine coverage (for physical loss); however whether or not you target shoot, hunt, carry for self-defense, collect or other activity will be the driver. Currently, most homeowner's policies will deny any coverage for a self-defense use as self-defense is a deliberate act and deliberate acts are usually excluded in liability policies.
SharpsDressedMan
member
Is it possible a "gun free zone" is less safe than "free gun zone"? Who is being protected in a gun free zone when a thug decides to make it his area of operation? Gun owners should demand that gun free zones be insured or protected by police or armed security.
Adam the Gnome
Member
Yeah gun free zones are ridiculous. Unless you have to go through a medal detector and security like at courthouses they do more harm than good.
Why not do that at schools? Have the coaches and pe teachers screen students at the doors.
Why not do that at schools? Have the coaches and pe teachers screen students at the doors.
bergmen
Member.
Well, here is something to think about by whoever is suggesting or advocating insurance for gun owners.
The definition of liability insurance is: Lawyer Bait.
Any incident whatsoever that can get you sued WILL get you sued. The more insurance coverage you have, the more rabid the scumbag lawyer that will get involved.
Dan
The definition of liability insurance is: Lawyer Bait.
Any incident whatsoever that can get you sued WILL get you sued. The more insurance coverage you have, the more rabid the scumbag lawyer that will get involved.
Dan
lionking
Member
- Joined
- Jul 6, 2006
- Messages
- 3,109
Something more sinister to think about. In certain states insurance companies refuse to offer home owners policies. That leaves people with one option, a state GOVERNMENT run insurance pool. Even then, that insurance has over time raised rates while offering less coverage and making exclusion like screen porches not covered as well as refusing to write sinkhole insurance in certain counties. Ask anybody in Florida about that.
Imagine when insurance is mandatory for guns but private insurance refuse to write. Are you willing to insure through the government?...lol
Imagine when insurance is mandatory for guns but private insurance refuse to write. Are you willing to insure through the government?...lol
I think it's a great idea! I love it when they spin their wheels on stupid stuff like this that has no chance of passage or surviving court challenge.
"Please waste your time on this. Then when it fails you will be back to square one, I will still be armed and you will still be unarmed."
"Please waste your time on this. Then when it fails you will be back to square one, I will still be armed and you will still be unarmed."
berettaprofessor
Member
Regarding the OP's proposal, I think several have pointed out why it won't happen: a) they have to know what you've got, i.e. it would require registration. b) criminals won't carry insurance on their guns c) the statistics would be hard to come by.
That said, I should start a company that only insures CCW holders who have had background checks; since they're less likely to commit crimes of any type than the given citizen.
That said, I should start a company that only insures CCW holders who have had background checks; since they're less likely to commit crimes of any type than the given citizen.
IBEWBULL
Member
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I AM SURE ALL OF OUR GRAND CHILDREN COULD GAIN BY BEING MEMBERS TOO.
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I AM SURE ALL OF OUR GRAND CHILDREN COULD GAIN BY BEING MEMBERS TOO.
http://www.fatwallet.com/forums/hot-deals/1251281/
22-rimfire
Member
I know you are being sarcastic, but I wouldn't even joke about such a thing. There is no proof that insurance requirements would not stand a court challenge.
I'm serious. I love it when they blather on about banning all semi's, needed for hunting and other stupid stuff. Good. I know it will fail.
I guess I've read more supreme court cases than you or the anti's. I'm confident those things would not stand for many reasons. I didn't fear Executive Orders, confiscations, a federal AWB or most of the other Chickenlittle stories going around.
I do fear carefully tailored incremental restrictions and concessions by my fellow gun owners and major gun groups.
As far as I'm concerned, the crazier the ideas, the better.
My favorite; "Only single shots and the National Guard are protected by the 2nd" Or "Obama will ban/confiscate your guns through EO's". Good, you run with those theories, see how far they get you.
Pointshoot
Member
OptimusPrime - good points you made about discussion among ourselves.
One thing that bothers me is that IMO we spend too much time on the defensive reacting to all sorts of idiotic proposals put out there as trial balloons by the antis. Youre less likely to be struck by lightening than be a victim of a mass shooting. Check out the number killed from numerous other causes including bee stings, bathtubs, & misdiagnosed medications. And, about 100 people die every day in car accidents in America. The whole premise of the other side is false -- that there's some kind of 'massive problem' and that certain kinds of guns are the 'cause'.
Its as though some royal 'government command' came out that from now on all Americans would have to always wear DayGlo bright pink jumpsuits - and we spent all our time arguing with them why we wanted to wear a more 'dignified' blue or black jumpsuit instead. (Oh we might 'compromise' and agree to wear the pink one twice per week. But only if we can wear a black or blue one the other 5 days.)
The media is painting an anti 2A 'picture' that has nothing to do with reality.
One thing that bothers me is that IMO we spend too much time on the defensive reacting to all sorts of idiotic proposals put out there as trial balloons by the antis. Youre less likely to be struck by lightening than be a victim of a mass shooting. Check out the number killed from numerous other causes including bee stings, bathtubs, & misdiagnosed medications. And, about 100 people die every day in car accidents in America. The whole premise of the other side is false -- that there's some kind of 'massive problem' and that certain kinds of guns are the 'cause'.
Its as though some royal 'government command' came out that from now on all Americans would have to always wear DayGlo bright pink jumpsuits - and we spent all our time arguing with them why we wanted to wear a more 'dignified' blue or black jumpsuit instead. (Oh we might 'compromise' and agree to wear the pink one twice per week. But only if we can wear a black or blue one the other 5 days.)
The media is painting an anti 2A 'picture' that has nothing to do with reality.
RetiredUSNChief
Member
Sample insurance company questionaire:
1. Are you a law-abiding citizen? (Y/N)
If you answered "Yes", then please skip to the bottom and sign the "preferred customer rate" signature block. A one time payment will be remitted in full for lifetime coverage upon completion and submission of this form because multiple payments for any smaller incremental periods will not be worth the price of postage for such small payments. All payments will be accepted in Monopoly cash only.
2. Are you a criminal? (Y/N)
If you answered "No", then please return to Question 1.
3. What criminal activities do you participate in?
A. Rape
B. Murder
C. Burglary
D. Mugging
E. Arson
F. Assault
G. Other (Describe)
4. In the space provided, please list all pistols currently owned by make, model, caliber, serial number.
5. In the space provided, please list all rifles currently owned by make, model, caliber, serial number.
6. In the space provided, please list all shotguns currently owned by make, model, gauge, serial number.
7. In the space provided, please list all other firearms/weapons currently owned by make, model number, caliber, and serial number where applicable.
8. In the space provided, please list all arrests and convictions for any criminal activities you have participated in.
9. Do you use any illegal drugs or abuse any prescription medication? (Y/N)
If so, please list the drugs/medication and your suppliers.
1. Are you a law-abiding citizen? (Y/N)
If you answered "Yes", then please skip to the bottom and sign the "preferred customer rate" signature block. A one time payment will be remitted in full for lifetime coverage upon completion and submission of this form because multiple payments for any smaller incremental periods will not be worth the price of postage for such small payments. All payments will be accepted in Monopoly cash only.
2. Are you a criminal? (Y/N)
If you answered "No", then please return to Question 1.
3. What criminal activities do you participate in?
A. Rape
B. Murder
C. Burglary
D. Mugging
E. Arson
F. Assault
G. Other (Describe)
4. In the space provided, please list all pistols currently owned by make, model, caliber, serial number.
5. In the space provided, please list all rifles currently owned by make, model, caliber, serial number.
6. In the space provided, please list all shotguns currently owned by make, model, gauge, serial number.
7. In the space provided, please list all other firearms/weapons currently owned by make, model number, caliber, and serial number where applicable.
8. In the space provided, please list all arrests and convictions for any criminal activities you have participated in.
9. Do you use any illegal drugs or abuse any prescription medication? (Y/N)
If so, please list the drugs/medication and your suppliers.
EmGeeGeorge
Member
- Joined
- Aug 24, 2005
- Messages
- 806
I just would like to point out that most insurers won't pay out in cases of deliberate negligence or criminal acts(think car insurance) so really it would be for accidental injury really only, which you already have with homeowners/renters insurance. If someone steals your car and runs down a bus stop full o children your insurance and you aren't really on the hook in most cases, right? So a stolen gun's possible misuse would be insured by no-one.
This would be free money for insurers. I think someone should look at the bill sponsors corporate donors and see if Farmers/Allstate/Geico etc aren't filling someone's coffers.
This would be free money for insurers. I think someone should look at the bill sponsors corporate donors and see if Farmers/Allstate/Geico etc aren't filling someone's coffers.
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