rbernie
Contributing Member
OOOH! OOOH ! I get a pitchfork this time!
Last time, they just made me shuffle along in the back to make the crowd look bigger....
New Target/Marine incident........
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Last time, they just made me shuffle along in the back to make the crowd look bigger....
Guess what? No military service issues civilian clothes to service people. You are authorized to go ANYWHERE in the USA, that has not been placed off limits by command, as long as you are in proper uniform.
agreed...he can wear his friggin uniform anywhere he wants...a decade ago we were not allowed to wear cammies out in town, but a dress uniform was always acceptable.
Now as I understand it, even the cammies are allowed, as we are a country at war...
Now as I understand it, even the cammies are allowed, as we are a country at war...
Wasn't it said on the last thread that Marines routinely spend their post-Basic leave recruiting around town for extra favors and benefits?
As to the Salvation Army - not a Christmas has gone by when the SA wasn't set up outside the Targets I've shopped at.
I seriously doubt Target would have such a policy. If it is true that he got kicked out for just being in uniform, I'm sure Target senior management would like to know. You don't have to make a public case out of it, just a well written letter (facts, dates, names) to their consumer affairs dept would probably suffice to see what the corporate policy really is.
In my over 20 yrs in uniform, I've been in Targets, Walmarts, Home Depots, etc many times in uniform and have never had a negative comment made (usually the opposite).
In my over 20 yrs in uniform, I've been in Targets, Walmarts, Home Depots, etc many times in uniform and have never had a negative comment made (usually the opposite).
XDKingslayer said:
actually the armed forces now encourages the wearing of uniforms, both fatigues and dress uniforms in public places, this is to help with the war in Iraq
msimonds said:
Citation please? I left the Marine Corps in August of 2003 and at the time, wearing cammies off-base was prohibited unless it was an emergency.
BS meter is pegged.
The question that needs to be asked is, how is this gun related. Oh thats right its...not.
The question that needs to be asked is, how is this gun related. Oh thats right its...not.
I shop at Target. I'll need to see some proof of this alleged anti-unform rule.
In fact, I was there just this past weekend and a police officer and a uniformed soldier were standing just inside the door chatting it up when I entered and when I left.
The recruiting station is within eye-sight of the store and I frequently see recruiters in there, in uniform, shopping and talking with people.
I'm not saying that your friend didn't experience an ejection, I just doubt that it is a company policy. Probably just some pansy shift manager on a power trip or something.
In fact, I was there just this past weekend and a police officer and a uniformed soldier were standing just inside the door chatting it up when I entered and when I left.
The recruiting station is within eye-sight of the store and I frequently see recruiters in there, in uniform, shopping and talking with people.
I'm not saying that your friend didn't experience an ejection, I just doubt that it is a company policy. Probably just some pansy shift manager on a power trip or something.
The only uniforms authorized for leave and liberty are the Dress blue Charlies and Deltas which is the blue pants and short or long sleeve khaki shirt w/tie, and the Alpha (green) uniforms.
Let me guess, he was parading around shopping with his mother in his Dress Blues?
Let me guess, he was parading around shopping with his mother in his Dress Blues?
For the record, Marines can wear any uniform off-duty except the Dress Blue alphas (medals) and Cammies/flight suits (working uniforms). As stated earlier the Marine in question just finished earning his right to wear that uniform and deserves every bit of respect associated with it. Regardless of official policy, the actions of Target's employees have lost it another customer.
Neo-Luddite
Member
http://www.snopes.com/politics/military/target.asp
These seem to be varriations on a similar theme. I dislike Target for their position on the RKBA, lack of US made goods, and poor prices. They really dug a hole when they shut the bell-ringers out is what I think. It wasn't far up from kicking the Boy/Girl Scouts in the stomach or bringing a keg of beer to an AA meeting on the gives-a-darn about people in a public way meter.
No doubt this attitude comes from some where--still no hard and fast evidence.
These seem to be varriations on a similar theme. I dislike Target for their position on the RKBA, lack of US made goods, and poor prices. They really dug a hole when they shut the bell-ringers out is what I think. It wasn't far up from kicking the Boy/Girl Scouts in the stomach or bringing a keg of beer to an AA meeting on the gives-a-darn about people in a public way meter.
No doubt this attitude comes from some where--still no hard and fast evidence.
Target has a solicitation policy, but I don't see anything about uniforms.
http://sites.target.com/site/en/corporate/page.jsp?contentId=PRD03-001336
Target Solicitation Policy
Target has a long-standing solicitation policy at our stores nationwide. In order to provide a distraction-free shopping environment for our guests, we do not allow solicitation or petitioning at our stores regardless of the cause being represented.
This policy does not diminish Target's support of communities. Target currently gives more than $3 million a week to communities across the country and provides valuable volunteer support to local organizations. Our company has many other means by which it can support organizations whose programs fall within our corporate giving guidelines. For more information on these guidelines, please pick up the Community Giving brochure in your store's Guest Service area or visit the Community Giving section on Target.com.
Solicitation in California
Out of respect for our guests and their shopping experience, Target does not permit solicitation or petitioning in front of any of our stores, regardless of the cause or issue being represented. If you would like more information on the law surrounding this issue, please see the California Law section.
How We Enforce Our Policy
To ensure an enjoyable shopping experience in all of our stores, including California, we have taken the following steps to provide a distraction-free shopping environment.
We ask all solicitors and petitioners to respect our policy by ceasing their activities and leaving our property. However, frequently they refuse to comply.
We partner with local law enforcement agencies to assist us in having unwanted solicitors and petitioners removed from our property.
If a store is located in a mall that is required to accommodate petitioning, we partner with the mall management to designate an appropriate area for that activity other than our front door. In some cases, solicitors and petitioners refuse to abide by rules established by the mall manager.
We believe that many of these petitioners persist with their activity because they are paid for each signature they get. In some cases, we are pursuing legal action to stop petitioning and soliciting at our stores. Unfortunately, this is not a quick process and may not result in the immediate removal of unwanted disturbances.
What You Can Do
Target firmly believes that our guests should enjoy a distraction-free shopping experience in our stores. If you feel harassed or bothered by a solicitor or petitioner outside a Target store, please alert store personnel. We appreciate your patience and patronage as we continue to do everything we can to provide you with a respectful, distraction-free shopping experience.
back to top
California Law
For many years, Target has enforced a no-solicitation policy at our stores nationwide to protect our guests from being subjected to persistent appeals when shopping at our stores. We believe we have this right since our stores are located on private property and are operated for the purpose of providing our guests with a comfortable shopping experience.
To challenge our solicitation policy, petitioners sometimes claim a right to gather signatures or engage in other expressive activity in front of a Target store based on Robins v. Pruneyard Shopping Center, a 1979 decision of the California Supreme Court. While that case found that California law provides some protection for "free speech" activities at shopping centers that constitute a public forum, it does not give petitioners unlimited access to retail property. The shopping center involved in the Pruneyard case was a large, regional mall with extensive public amenities and common areas for walking and gathering. The court in that case determined that the mall was a public forum because it was the functional equivalent of a traditional town square. As a public forum, the mall was required to permit free speech activities in the common area, subject to reasonable time, place and manner restrictions established by the mall owner. There have been recent cases in this area of the law that have clarified the scope of the Pruneyard decision. Based on these cases, it is clear that the Pruneyard decision does not require Target to permit petitioning in front of its stores.
Costco Companies, Inc. v. Gallant 96 Cal. App. 4th 740 (2002)
This case involved a challenge to restrictions imposed by Costco on petitioning at its stores. In its decision, the court held that a store such as a Costco is not a "miniature downtown" and so is not a public forum. Since the relevant characteristics of a Target store and a Costco store are essentially the same, the court's analysis would also apply to a Target store. Therefore, an individual Target store is not a public forum, so that the Pruneyard case does not give people the right to petition at a Target store.
Albertson's v. Young 107 Cal. App. 4th 106 (2003)
This case further clarified that individual retailers within larger commercial developments are also not within the reach of the Pruneyard decision. In this case, the solicitor argued that he had a right to engage in expressive activity at the Albertson's store because the store was part of a large shopping center. The court rejected this argument stating "[t]o establish a right to solicit signatures at the entrance to a specific store, it must be shown that the particular location is impressed with the character of a traditional public forum for purposes of free speech." Id. at 122. As noted above, a Target store is not itself a public forum. Therefore, there is no right to solicit signatures at the entrance to a Target store, even if the store is located in a shopping center.
These cases make clear that Target stores are not themselves within the reach of the Pruneyard decision and that we do not need to allow people to use our property for expressive activity. Even in shopping malls that are within the reach of the Pruneyard decision, the right under Pruneyard is to use the common areas of the mall, not the area directly outside the Target store entrance. Individuals wishing to use the common areas within shopping malls should address the matter with the shopping mall owner or operator, not with Target.
We will continue to enforce our no-solicitation policy in all stores, including California, as we believe that these recent cases demonstrate our right to control access to our property and provide our guests with a comfortable, distraction-free shopping experience.
back to top
Salvation Army
Target has a long-standing solicitation policy at our stores nationwide. In order to provide a distraction-free shopping environment for our guests, we do not allow solicitation or petitioning at our stores regardless of the cause being represented. In January 2004 we informed The Salvation Army of our decision to consistently apply our solicitation policy.
This policy does not diminish our support of The Salvation Army. In fact, Target kicked off the 2006 holiday season with a $1 million donation to The Salvation Army. Target also partnered with The Salvation Army to create an online Angel Giving Tree that generated more than $85,000 in assistance for those in need.
In addition, any non-profit organization, including The Salvation Army, can apply for a grant through its local Target store. Store grants form the basis of Target's extensive commitment to supporting the communities in which it does business, and many local Salvation Army corps across the country benefit from Target store grants. Here are a few examples of grants provided to local Salvation Army chapters in 2006:
Manhattan, KS - Early Childhood Reading Program
Rockford, IL - Family Violence Prevention Program
San Diego, CA - Sheltering Families in Crisis
Yuma, AZ - Bookworm Reading Project
Baton Rouge, LA - School of Performing Arts
Warner Robins, GA - Salvation Army Safe House
Charlottesville, VA - Pre-School Literacy Program
Target has one of the largest and most respected corporate philanthropy programs in America, donating more than $2 million per week and hundreds of thousands of volunteer hours each year to non-profit organizations across the country. Forbes magazine recently ranked Target as the "Most Charitable Company in America."
http://sites.target.com/site/en/corporate/page.jsp?contentId=PRD03-001336
Target Solicitation Policy
Target has a long-standing solicitation policy at our stores nationwide. In order to provide a distraction-free shopping environment for our guests, we do not allow solicitation or petitioning at our stores regardless of the cause being represented.
This policy does not diminish Target's support of communities. Target currently gives more than $3 million a week to communities across the country and provides valuable volunteer support to local organizations. Our company has many other means by which it can support organizations whose programs fall within our corporate giving guidelines. For more information on these guidelines, please pick up the Community Giving brochure in your store's Guest Service area or visit the Community Giving section on Target.com.
Solicitation in California
Out of respect for our guests and their shopping experience, Target does not permit solicitation or petitioning in front of any of our stores, regardless of the cause or issue being represented. If you would like more information on the law surrounding this issue, please see the California Law section.
How We Enforce Our Policy
To ensure an enjoyable shopping experience in all of our stores, including California, we have taken the following steps to provide a distraction-free shopping environment.
We ask all solicitors and petitioners to respect our policy by ceasing their activities and leaving our property. However, frequently they refuse to comply.
We partner with local law enforcement agencies to assist us in having unwanted solicitors and petitioners removed from our property.
If a store is located in a mall that is required to accommodate petitioning, we partner with the mall management to designate an appropriate area for that activity other than our front door. In some cases, solicitors and petitioners refuse to abide by rules established by the mall manager.
We believe that many of these petitioners persist with their activity because they are paid for each signature they get. In some cases, we are pursuing legal action to stop petitioning and soliciting at our stores. Unfortunately, this is not a quick process and may not result in the immediate removal of unwanted disturbances.
What You Can Do
Target firmly believes that our guests should enjoy a distraction-free shopping experience in our stores. If you feel harassed or bothered by a solicitor or petitioner outside a Target store, please alert store personnel. We appreciate your patience and patronage as we continue to do everything we can to provide you with a respectful, distraction-free shopping experience.
back to top
California Law
For many years, Target has enforced a no-solicitation policy at our stores nationwide to protect our guests from being subjected to persistent appeals when shopping at our stores. We believe we have this right since our stores are located on private property and are operated for the purpose of providing our guests with a comfortable shopping experience.
To challenge our solicitation policy, petitioners sometimes claim a right to gather signatures or engage in other expressive activity in front of a Target store based on Robins v. Pruneyard Shopping Center, a 1979 decision of the California Supreme Court. While that case found that California law provides some protection for "free speech" activities at shopping centers that constitute a public forum, it does not give petitioners unlimited access to retail property. The shopping center involved in the Pruneyard case was a large, regional mall with extensive public amenities and common areas for walking and gathering. The court in that case determined that the mall was a public forum because it was the functional equivalent of a traditional town square. As a public forum, the mall was required to permit free speech activities in the common area, subject to reasonable time, place and manner restrictions established by the mall owner. There have been recent cases in this area of the law that have clarified the scope of the Pruneyard decision. Based on these cases, it is clear that the Pruneyard decision does not require Target to permit petitioning in front of its stores.
Costco Companies, Inc. v. Gallant 96 Cal. App. 4th 740 (2002)
This case involved a challenge to restrictions imposed by Costco on petitioning at its stores. In its decision, the court held that a store such as a Costco is not a "miniature downtown" and so is not a public forum. Since the relevant characteristics of a Target store and a Costco store are essentially the same, the court's analysis would also apply to a Target store. Therefore, an individual Target store is not a public forum, so that the Pruneyard case does not give people the right to petition at a Target store.
Albertson's v. Young 107 Cal. App. 4th 106 (2003)
This case further clarified that individual retailers within larger commercial developments are also not within the reach of the Pruneyard decision. In this case, the solicitor argued that he had a right to engage in expressive activity at the Albertson's store because the store was part of a large shopping center. The court rejected this argument stating "[t]o establish a right to solicit signatures at the entrance to a specific store, it must be shown that the particular location is impressed with the character of a traditional public forum for purposes of free speech." Id. at 122. As noted above, a Target store is not itself a public forum. Therefore, there is no right to solicit signatures at the entrance to a Target store, even if the store is located in a shopping center.
These cases make clear that Target stores are not themselves within the reach of the Pruneyard decision and that we do not need to allow people to use our property for expressive activity. Even in shopping malls that are within the reach of the Pruneyard decision, the right under Pruneyard is to use the common areas of the mall, not the area directly outside the Target store entrance. Individuals wishing to use the common areas within shopping malls should address the matter with the shopping mall owner or operator, not with Target.
We will continue to enforce our no-solicitation policy in all stores, including California, as we believe that these recent cases demonstrate our right to control access to our property and provide our guests with a comfortable, distraction-free shopping experience.
back to top
Salvation Army
Target has a long-standing solicitation policy at our stores nationwide. In order to provide a distraction-free shopping environment for our guests, we do not allow solicitation or petitioning at our stores regardless of the cause being represented. In January 2004 we informed The Salvation Army of our decision to consistently apply our solicitation policy.
This policy does not diminish our support of The Salvation Army. In fact, Target kicked off the 2006 holiday season with a $1 million donation to The Salvation Army. Target also partnered with The Salvation Army to create an online Angel Giving Tree that generated more than $85,000 in assistance for those in need.
In addition, any non-profit organization, including The Salvation Army, can apply for a grant through its local Target store. Store grants form the basis of Target's extensive commitment to supporting the communities in which it does business, and many local Salvation Army corps across the country benefit from Target store grants. Here are a few examples of grants provided to local Salvation Army chapters in 2006:
Manhattan, KS - Early Childhood Reading Program
Rockford, IL - Family Violence Prevention Program
San Diego, CA - Sheltering Families in Crisis
Yuma, AZ - Bookworm Reading Project
Baton Rouge, LA - School of Performing Arts
Warner Robins, GA - Salvation Army Safe House
Charlottesville, VA - Pre-School Literacy Program
Target has one of the largest and most respected corporate philanthropy programs in America, donating more than $2 million per week and hundreds of thousands of volunteer hours each year to non-profit organizations across the country. Forbes magazine recently ranked Target as the "Most Charitable Company in America."
First of all, as for proof, I am NOT going to give it to you. All I have is his mothers word, and all you have is mine.
I have never in my life posted something I know to be false, and sure as hell, with my show every week, there are lots of people willing to tell me if it was the case.
Secondly, he was wearing his uniform PUPOSELY. Think about it. He was kind of a troubled kid before he left, and was showing off his brand new uniform. I would have too.
Take it for what it's worth. He won't make a big deal of it, so thats the end of it.
Maybe one of the guys HERE who wear the uniform could go to Target and try it for themselves?
I have never in my life posted something I know to be false, and sure as hell, with my show every week, there are lots of people willing to tell me if it was the case.
Secondly, he was wearing his uniform PUPOSELY. Think about it. He was kind of a troubled kid before he left, and was showing off his brand new uniform. I would have too.
Take it for what it's worth. He won't make a big deal of it, so thats the end of it.
Maybe one of the guys HERE who wear the uniform could go to Target and try it for themselves?
benEzra
Moderator Emeritus
hmm, has to be some gun content in this thread.
okay, has anyone open carried in a target store and been asked to leave?
i've CCW'd in plenty of them and have never had a problem.
okay, has anyone open carried in a target store and been asked to leave?
i've CCW'd in plenty of them and have never had a problem.
I'm not saying I'm convinced as to the claims made about Target, but ...
... I sure would love to be there with a camera if/when they ever call a cop to kick out a soldier.
Read Snopes.com
http://www.snopes.com/politics/military/target.asp
All the rumors are documented to be false.
I wore my uniform (BDU's) in Target Just after Christmas, and no one even looked at me. I even ate a hotdog in their snack bar area, while the manager and a couploeof department managers where having lunch. No one even said a word to me or cast a glance my way.
Maybe I was too camo, they didin't see me.
http://www.snopes.com/politics/military/target.asp
All the rumors are documented to be false.
I wore my uniform (BDU's) in Target Just after Christmas, and no one even looked at me. I even ate a hotdog in their snack bar area, while the manager and a couploeof department managers where having lunch. No one even said a word to me or cast a glance my way.
Maybe I was too camo, they didin't see me.
Orthonym, SP? I'll try it tomorrow but in cub scout, Webelos, & a cubmaster uniform. I can take my boys & myself to Target & see what happens. Don't think anything will since Bakersfield is pretty conservative lol.
Hope you do that, jmabbott, we need to test all possibilities from earnest little kids in fun uniforms up through serious bad@sses with thousand-yard stares in Marine officer mess dress uniforms.
With capes. And swords.
(cue theremin music)
With capes. And swords.
(cue theremin music)
Ahhh, WeThePeople, you give me hope.
Why try to extrapolate Target corporate policy from one isolated incident? We have one anecdotal incident and some people are ready to burn down Target. Isn't it possible that the manager was just a deusch?
I concur with WeThePeople. I think it has been established to death that A) Target has a no solicitation policy (including the Salvation Army) and B) they do allow uniformed soldiers/police officers/EMTs/Boy Scouts into their stores. So, where's the controversy?
Why try to extrapolate Target corporate policy from one isolated incident? We have one anecdotal incident and some people are ready to burn down Target. Isn't it possible that the manager was just a deusch?
I concur with WeThePeople. I think it has been established to death that A) Target has a no solicitation policy (including the Salvation Army) and B) they do allow uniformed soldiers/police officers/EMTs/Boy Scouts into their stores. So, where's the controversy?
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