New to Black Powder

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gobsauce said:
most of them should work pretty well fresh out the box.
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I think this sums up the modification and tuning issue/debate pretty well. If something that works "pretty well" is satisfactory, then that's okay. And, that is okay. But a good tuning with some mods will take it from "pretty well fresh out of the box" to "NIB Smith and Wesson made in 1950 fresh out of the box". And probably equal to a fresh out of the box Colt pistol back in the day, in 1860. If not superior. !!

On ring-shaving, if the ball is a tight fit in the chamber, has a slight chamfer, or a taper to the chamber you might not see the ring-0-lead. None of my revolvers shave lead, but all take a good amount of force to chamber a ball or slug. I've only had one chain fire in my life, and that was the first and last time I tried 777. Blew the front sight and loading lever latch-stud off the barrel too! I was very much a believer in wads, but lately I've been shooting without them. Anyhow, the ring-shaving thing is debatable, but by all means, if in doubt, shave the ball!! :)

Good luck and enjoy. The 1860 packs a punch, and sure is a nice handling pistol.
 
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Ugly Sauce said:
I think this sums up the modification and tuning issue/debate pretty well. If something that works "pretty well" is satisfactory, then that's okay. And, that is okay. But a good tuning with some mods will take it from "pretty well fresh out of the box" to "NIB Smith and Wesson made in 1950 fresh out of the box". And probably closer to a fresh out of the box pistol back in the day, in 1860. If not superior. !!

On ring-shaving, if the ball is a tight fit in the chamber, has a slight chamfer, or a taper to the chamber you might not see the ring-0-lead. None of my revolvers shave lead, but all take a good amount of force to chamber a ball or slug. I've only had one chain fire in my life, and that was the first and last time I tried 777. Blew the front sight and loading lever latch-stud off the barrel too! I was very much a believer in wads, but lately I've been shooting without them. Anyhow, the ring-shaving thing is debatable, but by all means, if in doubt, shave the ball!! :)

Good luck and enjoy. The 1860 packs a punch, and sure is a nice handling pistol.
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You brought up ring shaving, I recall reading somewhere that originals had the chamfered chambers for the most part.

Anyways, if you want the chamfered chambers, you can send it off to either @Jackrabbit1957 or @45 Dragoon
 
Jackrabbit1957 said:
Thanks for the mention!, I am a firm believer in having no ring shaved off a ball. Does anyone know when or where that idea comes from? It's not in any Colt loading instructions that I've seen.
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Probably Sam Fadala… but seriously, if the ball is oversized enough to shave a couple thousandths and the chambers are over bore size by a couple thousandths as well. You’re on the right track. Chamfered and no ring or dead flat and a ring isn’t that unimportant imo…
 
I suspect it would take a .500" ball to shave lead in my 1860. I tried to chamber one of the balls I cast out of lead that was too hard, (just curious if I could still shoot them) they were approaching .460", depending how/where I measured. It was too tight to chamber fully, but did not shave a ring, or start to. (removed the cone and tapped it back out before I got it too stuck in there) (and didn't want to put that much pressure on the rammer and barrel to seat it all the way)
 
Jackrabbit1957 said:
Thanks for the mention!, I am a firm believer in having no ring shaved off a ball. Does anyone know when or where that idea comes from? It's not in any Colt loading instructions that I've seen.
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Colt had a patent for it in 1837 but AFAIK know never used it on any of his revolvers. Maybe he used them on the Paterson but dropped it on later models.
 
hawg said:
Colt had a patent for it in 1837 but AFAIK know never used it on any of his revolvers. Maybe he used them on the Paterson but dropped it on later models.
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The chamfer which was to prevent chain fires?
 
Jackrabbit1957 said:
Thanks for the mention!, I am a firm believer in having no ring shaved off a ball. Does anyone know when or where that idea comes from? It's not in any Colt loading instructions that I've seen.
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Jackrabbit1957. Really? Please explain. Does this subject by any chance get into "where" a chain fire "can" occur? Front of, or rear of cylinder? I am ready for another education. This is not a dig by the way but a sincere question. :thumbup: Z
 
Shaving lead is reducing the weight of the ball, sometimes I see the ring is thicker on one side so it cut lead off more on one side resulting in the ball being off center. Not so good for accuracy. With a chamfered chamber the ball is compressed into the chamber and keeps its full weight and is not cut off center. When the ball is seated it's further compressed by the loading ram, this is the reason for pure lead, helping to seal the chamber. I think that most chainfires occur at the rear of the cylinder although there are lots of opinions on this, due poorly fitted caps.
 
Jackrabbit1957 said:
Shaving lead is reducing the weight of the ball, sometimes I see the ring is thicker on one side so it cut lead off more on one side resulting in the ball being off center. Not so good for accuracy. With a chamfered chamber the ball is compressed into the chamber and keeps its full weight and is not cut off center. When the ball is seated it's further compressed by the loading ram, this is the reason for pure lead, helping to seal the chamber. I think that most chainfires occur at the rear of the cylinder although there are lots of opinions on this, due poorly fitted caps.
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Thanks. So are you saying that you only recommend chamfered cylinders or am I misunderstanding?
 
Zulch said:
Jackrabbit1957. Really? Please explain. Does this subject by any chance get into "where" a chain fire "can" occur? Front of, or rear of cylinder? I am ready for another education. This is not a dig by the way but a sincere question. :thumbup: Z
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As @Jackrabbit1957 and @hawg sorta mentioned, we don't entirely know how they happen, but we absolutely know they do happen.

We take precautions against them, like making sure we have a tight fit on caps, making sure we have a tight seal with the projectile. I personally add Crisco over the roundball.
 
cleaning properly is the must that often gets looked over. Understand that water is needed to remove the corrosive salts formed from BP and many of the substitutes. I take mine fully apart and wash in a bucket of hot soapy water.....yep! Dry things off and put it in the oven for ten minutes (minus grips) at 200F to get it all dry. You'll see a spot or two of flash rust, but it just wipes away with oil, never a problem.

Just learn to use some antiseeze on the nips, and just hand tight. You'll be good to go for ages. Enjoy the experience!
 
My very first percussion revolver, way back as a teenager, was a Walker, probably made by Uberti. (It was stolen so long ago that I don't really remember any details).

I knew nothing about guns in general and even less about percussion revolvers, but I sure had a ball with that Walker. I loaded it loose, using as much 2f as I could stuff into it, and balls and caps of whatever size were on the shelf. I could keep every shot on paper at 7 yards, and it made lots of smoke and noise, and I was just as happy as could be. It broke every once in a while - usually a spring, though sometimes some bit of lockwork - but we had a blackpowder specialty shop a few miles down the road and the gunsmith there - probably out of pity - charged me a flat $25 each time.

Today I wouldn't even shoot the gun before first giving it a complete going-over, fixing the arbor length, replacing flat springs, and adjusting the timing and trigger - assuming I didn't just send it off to one of the experts around here to really make it right. Whether I would then enjoy it nearly as much as I did back when is a question I'm not going to think about too hard...
 
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Jackrabbit1957 said:
I think that most chainfires occur at the rear of the cylinder although there are lots of opinions on this, due poorly fitted caps.
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I sure can't come to a conclusion on the issue. The only time I ever had a chain fire, as I've mentioned a million times before, was the first time I tried 777. Got to shot seven or eight, and KA-BLAM! First six shots, I thought: "this is pretty good stuff!" Ooops there goes another loading latch stud. !!! I was using pinched caps at the time, and no wad under the ball, and no lube over.

I'll say again that there's nothing wrong with shaving the ball, but I do believe a chamfer or tapered chamber is superior.

On my pistols, I notice that when I seat a ball, the pressure is even throughout the stroke, maybe a bit harder initially. Watching video of people seating balls when shaving the ring, it looks like a lot of pressure at first, then it "breaks", and the ball goes down/pops down real fast after the ring is shaved. ??? Kind of like a compound bow, where the pull is real hard, then it "breaks" over, compared to a stick bow where the pull is consistent. ??

Just an observation, not sure what that has to do with anything! But does make me wonder if shaving the ring really accomplishes it's intended purpose.

Wow, if a ball is shaving more off one side than the other, I would think the ball is either way out of round, or the chamber is. ???
 
Blackpowderwarrior said:
Barring nothing is wrong mechanically, clean it and shoot it.

I recommend changing nipples that are made specifically for what brand and size caps you have.
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Amen. Or get some oversize cones, and chuck 'em in the drill press, and carefully size them for a perfect fit.
 
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