New to Blackpowder Shooting - TC Hawken

[Mac Attack]

I got this itch to try shooting a muzzleloader and happened to pick up a used but in decent condition Thompson Center Hawken rifle .50 Cal cap lock and a bag full of sabots, balls, powder and all the accessories I will need for less than $180. Did I do good?

I really like the feel and balance of the rifle and the trigger pull is amazingly light. I can't wait to shoot it but need to find a owners manual first. Anyways, since this is my first BP rifle I was looking for some tips on how to shoot blackpowder. Also does anyone know of a local BP club in Atlanta, GA?

I will post pictures of my rifle as soon as I can take them.

Mac

 

[Pancho]

Mac, there are a lot of good deals coming up on fine quality sidelocks due to theflood of inlines touting 150 gr.charges. You did well. I got a similar deal last summer. The first thing you have to determine is how fast the twist is. This can be done with your ramrod, a cleaning swage and a lubed tight cleaning patch. Push the rod with the cleaning patch down the barrel letting the rifling grab the patch which will turn the rod in your had. With a pen mark a spot on the ramrod inline with the front sights. Carefully pull the ramrod out letting the rifling twist the rod in your hand. Pull the rod out about a foot and then notice how far the mark as turned. If the sights are 12 oclock and the mark is at 3 oclock That means in four feet the rod will have made a complete twist. That barrel is a 1 in 48 a rather slow twist and will shoot patched balls best. You might have a 1 in 36 This is a compromise barrel and is said to shoot patched round balls and conical. You might have a 1in24 fast twist barrel that is best with conicals and soboted rounds. This simple ramrod test narrows down some of the varibles for you. Complete this test and get back to us. Well only talk about the rounds right for your firearm.

 

[scrat]

i took the plunge a month ago. cabelas cva 209 buckhorn. its a blast to shoot very easy to shoot and clean too. As soon as you get to the range your going to have a blast. Things you will need that the starter kit does not give you.


powder measure

powder flask

Then buy some extra bullets. Bore butter, Flint cleaning pick

 

[arcticap]

I've found that the 1 in 48 inch twist will shoot both round balls and medium weight saboted bullets quite well. One of mine shoots 240 grain lead bullets with TC Break-O-Way sabots to the same point of aim as a round ball, and with more accuracy and consistency with a heavy 90 grain powder charge of Pyrodex P.
Some guns do like certain sabots and some guns don't.

Here's the link to an online TC sidelock manual:
http://www.tcarms.com/assets/manuals/current/Shooting_TC_Side_Lock_Black_Powder_Guns.pdf

It sounds like you found a nice rifle, whatever the barrel twist is.

 

[Macmac]

TC honors any and all purchases so far as I know. Like you can buy a TC gun for dirt because some one ran it over with a truck, and what ever broke, will be replaced free.

If you drop any part down a street drain, they will give you a new part for the asking.

Getting manuals should be no harder than asking them.

Incase you don't know, TC is located in Rochester New Hampshire.

While I have never done any of the above I have known they had certain parts that I knew would work for items they had nothing to do with, and asked to buy the particular part. AND still the are willing to supply these small parts for Free....

You just can't beat that kind of service!

 

[SASS#23149]

You done good!!
A t/c Hawken is not 'the best' but is certainly far from the worst.My son has the same rifle and it's on my short list now.

tips on shooting bp;
buy and use real bp if available.Goex is a good brand,there are others.
..Clean it AS SOON AS YOU GET HOME. bp is totally different than smokeless.
If the cap pops but charge doesn't fire,KEEP THE MUZZLE DOWNRANGE,and hold onto it for a minute at least.Then try another cap.
..It is sometimes a lot of trial and error to find a patch/ball/powder charge combo that shoots where it's aimed,but what the heck,it's fun getting there.!
Buy a metal 'range rod' and save the wooden one for looks.They can break and go thru your hand I"ve heard.
..WHEN,not if,you forget the powder charge...known as dryballing...remove the nipple and dribble in a bit of powder,replace nipple and fire as usual.They make a screw-type puller that screws onto the ramrod but I"ve not had good luck with them.Pour a little water down the barrel if using a screw puller,or a bit of oil,THEN CLEAN IT OUT.

whooee,didn't mean to write a book,but that is how it goes with bp,there is no short version.

ask more questions if ya need to,I"ve learnd all the answers THE HARD WAY.

 

[Pancho]

When is the right term Sass. They still call me ppb (powder patch ball) at deer camp. I not only dryballed I did it with an audience of about 15 guys. There was no powder involved so the screwpuller worked just fine but you can't do it without somebody noticing.

 

[Macmac]

2 things: Once you have "dry balled" and if the small amount of powder you can trickel into the nipple hole does NOT clear the ball, then remove the nipple and add more powder than you could the first time.

RE-RAM the ball on this 2nd charge, so as to leave NO AIR SPACE.

That should do it.

2: If you must pull a ball, common rubbing alcohol beats just about anything and it creates a slippery compound of burnt powder. In lieu of rubbing alcohol try window washer from the jug under the hood. It works as well in a pinch.

a 3rd comment which is debatable around here, is my preferance for never ever watering a charge to render a BP gun usless, and safe...

people bring me guns in this watered down state, some how thinking they have done me a favor. To me this is a wicked sin, and makes my job much harder to get any stuck ball and load out.

as to pullers, I have seen far more than my fair share of broken pullers still wedged in a ball deep down a bore, and that is NO FUN.. Some have broken ram rods still on them.

There is a bronze tool made to grab a ram rod with 2 hands. The harder you pull the harder the tool cams onto the rod.

A good wooden rod has dead staight wood grain, or no grain runs out on a angle. Many wooden rods do have grain running out to a side and when these break if the nex thing that hits one happens to be your hand, well yer hand is suitable for the BBQ... There is a good bet you will use certain sailor like language and not be overly happy.

Old timer's like me... "Temper" wooden rods in Mineral Spirits, and or keroscene for 3 weeks before we put any rod into use. Doing so makes them flex alot more.

One way is to cap off a small diamter pvc pipe, longer than the rod, and fill it to the brim, add the rods and cap the pipe.

 

[Dienekes]

You did well on that TC Hawken. I bought one back around 1974 and shot the heck out of it for about 5 years. It was a good rifle and I had a lot of good times with it. Foolishly sold it to have a custom, much more authentic Hawken style rifle built. It was a beautiful piece but remained unreliable till the day I sold it for a loss. Wish I had kept the TC and still occasionally thing about replacing it, possibly for a flinter version.

My wife had a .45 TC Seneca which was also a first class little rifle. We sold that also and that too was a mistake.

Maybe I should start keeping my eyes open for replacements.

Have fun. I did.

 

[Mac Attack]

Pancho, I will figure out the barrel twist rate right away.

In the meantime here is a post of how I found my rifle:

I happened to be walking by the gun counter when a Lady was in the final stages of selling a 2 blackpowder rifle to the store. The Lady said the rifles used to belong to her father who was an avid muzzleloader fan and hunter. He passed away and they had been sitting in her closet for years and no one in the family wanted them. One of the rifles was a really nice Kentucky rifle which I was told was a custom made rifle that the store purchased for $1000+. The other rifle was a much shorter one with a nice look to it. Both rifles were in good great condition and came with leather shoulder bags which contained all sorts of stuff from gun powder, jigs, patches, balls, sabots...etc.

The shop purchased the shorter rifle which I recognized as a Thompson Center Hawkens rifle in .50 Cal. for $160 To make a long story short I walked out with the Hawkens and bag for less than $180. Did I do well on a price? They marked up the rifle an extra $10 to sell to me. It has some loves scratches and the metal has a nice patina color but overall it is in a lovely used but not abused condition. I plan to clean up the brass and may fix the stock scratches but then again I may just leave it as it is.

The bag of supplies which came with my rifle was really amazing on it's own. It has all sorts of internal storage for everything from cleaning jigs to patch storage. The bag came filled with all sorts of supplies much of which I have no idea what they are for. As you can see in the pictures there are several pre measured containers of loose powder, ball and sabot ammo, wet and dry patches, cleaning solution and oil, Crisco (why?), small barrel rod, conical handle for the large barrel rod and several other items of interest which I have no clue.

Anyways, here are some pictures. One of these days I need to learn how to take decent pictures:
My Son and our Hawkens rifle
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Rifle shots:
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[Mac Attack]

Pictures of the Bag:
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Edited picture - I removed the name of the previous owner
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Group shot of supplies:
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Individual shots by group:
Powder
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Balls/Sabots:
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Patches - Wet and Dry:
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Accessories (could use some help determining what they are for):
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Some sort of tags with reflective tabs (not sure what they are)
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[Pancho]

Great buy! Direct all your questions to this forum you'll get all the answers you need to get shooting. The tags could have been for marking his way in and out of a woods other than that I haven't a clue. I like the electrician's tape stop to keep from bashing your fingers on the bullet starter.

 

[oneshooter]

The plastic vials contained pre-measured powder charges.
Accessories:
Top: Short starter, used to start a projectile flush with the muzzle(the short rod on the ball) and then several inched int the barrel (the long part) this makes it easier to ram the load home.
The cone shaped thingie slips onto the end of the ramrod, it allowes you to safely ram the load to the bottom of the barrel, just put it on the end of the ramrod and push. It helps to prevent "broken rod hand" as mentioned above.
Next are 4 jags for the end of the cleaning rod L-R
Ball puller, for pulling a dry loaded ball. This is one that you REALLY don't want to have to use. But you will! Given time everybody uses this jag.
Next is a cleaning jag. Used to clean and oil the barrel. The next is a smaller cleaning jag to clean the powder chamber.
Next is a patch puller, to be used if and when you lose a patch off of the cleaning jag.
The bottom item is a in-line capper. A easy way to carry a small supply of caps, ready to use.

In the next picture is, on top, a nipple wrench. This is used to remove and replace the nipple on the rifle.
Below that is an adjustable powder measure. This is used to measure a consistent charge of powder. And to change powder charged as needed for best accuracy. It is marked in graduations of 10 grains each.

The previous owner was a hunter, and the reflective tape is used to mark a visable trail if you have to follow a wounded game animal.

Check out the sticky at the top of the forum. It contains a LOT of needed info for the begining BP shooter.
When ready, go to the range, take your time, and have FUN.

Oneshooter
Livin in Texas



I GOT to start typing with more than two fingers!!

 

[Mac Attack]

Pancho wrote:

...The first thing you have to determine is how fast the twist is. This can be done with your ramrod, a cleaning swage and a lubed tight cleaning patch. Push the rod with the cleaning patch down the barrel letting the rifling grab the patch which will turn the rod in your had. With a pen mark a spot on the ramrod inline with the front sights. Carefully pull the ramrod out letting the rifling twist the rod in your hand. Pull the rod out about a foot and then notice how far the mark as turned. If the sights are 12 oclock and the mark is at 3 oclock That means in four feet the rod will have made a complete twist. That barrel is a 1 in 48 a rather slow twist and will shoot patched balls best. You might have a 1 in 36 This is a compromise barrel and is said to shoot patched round balls and conical. You might have a 1in24 fast twist barrel that is best with conicals and soboted rounds. This simple ramrod test narrows down some of the varibles for you. Complete this test and get back to us. Well only talk about the rounds right for your firearm.

Okay. I finally was able to do the test above. I started with the marking at the 12:00 o'clock position and ended up at the 6:00 o'clock position. What twist rate does this make my rifle? If it helps the serial number of my rifle is K176xxx. Thanks for your help

 

[Sergeant Sabre]

If you pulled it out exactly 12", then your twist is 1 in 24". A very fast rate of twist.

 

[Pancho]

I agree with the Sgt. 1in 24 is a fast twist. According to popular belief your gun should shoot maxieballs, minnieballs, powerbelts, and sabotted rounds better than patched roundballs. The previous owner, judging from his stuff, was a hunter and put time and effort into his shooting. Based on that I'd try the powerbelts you got with his stuff first. I'm not a big fan of sabots in guns you can't remove the breechplug easily. Sabots have a reputation for leaving a plastic build up and if you can't see it you might not know it until it's too late.

 

[Zeke/PA]

My first powder gun was and still is a built from kit T/C Hawkin that I've had for over 20 years.
The Hawkin is indeed a 1in 48" twist and as a "compromise" twist shoots patched round balls and conicals quite well.
I shoot a home cast .50 cal round ball with a .010" patch over 50 grains of FFG for my best accuracy.
For hunting, a home cast 370 grain Maxi-Ball over 90 grains of FFG is deadly.
There is some good ramrod advice on the other posts.
ALWAYS use your short starter.
Dont be afraid to swab the bore every couple of shots, wet patch followed by dry of course.
A range rod is a great idea.
For the very rare bullet pulling chore I made up a 3/8" brass tee handled affair with a large wood screw soldered to the business end.
Awhile back, Thompson, in their literature, discoureged shooting sabots in the cap and flintlock rifles.
Not sure if that has changed.
Have fun.
Respectfully, Zeke

 

[RugerGuy]

Nice purchase !! You did VERY well considering you got all those accessories. One thing I would consider doing is switching your #11 nipple to a musket one. It'll cost you under $10 and you'll get a lot hotter spark when you pull the trigger.

 

[Mac Attack]

RugerGuy, can I do that? Would this allow me to shoot the size up from #11 caps?

 

[RugerGuy]

Yes you can do it. Just make sure you get the correct size musket nipple that fits your brand muzzleloader. The threads are different on some of them. I bought mine [2 of them] one time when I was placing a order with MidwayUSA for reloading supplies. I just told the guy what brand my smokepole was and he sold me the correct ones. Think they were $6.95 or something a piece.

 

[Pancho]

Mac Attack, TC uses 1/4-28 threads. If you have a Bass Pro,Gander Mountain near you they will have them. Aside from a hotter spark they are just easier to handle physically 4 times larger than #11's and shaped like a top hat so they are a lot easier to decap. Cold weather deer hunting I dropped more #11's than I used.