New to Concealed Carry

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Grynch31b

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I've recently obtained my concealed carry permit and have been debating and researching over pistols, figured I would ask here. I'm not new to firearms completely, so I've narrowed my wants down a bit and also kind of narrowed some of my other choices down.

I've fired xD's before, I like them, but if anyone has input on things other than xD's I'd love to hear it. I'm pretty set on my first being a .40 SW, but I'm floating back and forth between Springfield, Walther, and Sig Sauer (s') various models. As it is going to be my first concealed carry, I'd like it to be compact enough that it's not noticeable, but I've held a Ruger LCP before and I am completely uncomfortable with the idea of a "compact" pistol that not all of my meat hooks fit on the grip. I also want a pistol of good quality that the slide isn't going to rust if I wear it to go to the range and back home. Price is an issue as in any case, but not including prices in any of your opinions, any feedback or recommendations are welcome.

Thanks! (If there was a previous topic I haven't found yet, a link would be nice, or if this is in the wrong sub-forum let me know)
 
Can't go wrong with the XD. The Walther PPS is going to hide better (however it and the SIGs are going to push the limits of your budget), If you have larger hands you might find a Glock 27 fits nice too. Or the S&W M&P Compact.

With the right leather it shouldn't matter which compact pistol you go with (I've been walking around all day with cargo shorts and a T shirt and I hid a full size CZ75 SA .40 just fine).

Get to a gun shop with a good selection and put your paws on a few different guns ... pick the gun that feels good in the hand, then worry about how to conceal it.
 
Glocks from what I've heard had some decent customer service (selection too), but so far I've been staying away from them. I can't pinpoint it specifically, I'm just not a fan.

As for your suggestion... I've been trying my best. Took me a bit to get the permit so I was anxious to get out and buy my first concealed carry, but once I had the permit I realized fully that it would be stupid of me to run out and buy the first handgun I was able to wrap digits around. I've tried shops all over from local small town shops on up to Gander Mountain, selections varying, and that's what helped narrow me down to this point. I was looking at a PPS Slimline in .40 today, I liked the feel and the slenderness, but a concern that grabbed my attention was at a previous encounter, a local gun shop owner told me he wouldn't order PPS' in citing a major defect (which I can't recall at this point in time, but often required PPS owners to send their firearm back to Walther for service). If you have heard anything along those lines, is it a current issue or was this an issue in years past and has since been corrected?
 
Unless you're married to the 40 for some reason, you might consider a 9mm?

I bought one of the old pre-Melonite XDSC40s for CC way back-main reason I got the 40 back then was the old XDSC9 held only 1 more round than the 40. When they redesigned the magazines on the XDSC9 to hold more rounds, I replaced my XDSC40 with their 9mm.
I've tended to move down in caliber over the years as SD ammo has improved.
Besides being cheaper to shoot and less recoil/muzzle flip, you have some options with the 9 down the road AFA SD ammo (can go +P/+P+).

My main reasons for going to the same gun in the 9:
1. I'd rather have 3 or 4 more rounds of 9 in the same gun.
2. Muzzle flip-the XDSC40 recoil doesn't bother me, but it does have a bit of muzzle flip.
3. Cheaper to shoot/practice.

'Course if you do go the XDSC route, I had to install the Pearce Grip Extender on my short mag-I just hate a danglin' pinky!
 
Glocks from what I've heard had some decent customer service (selection too), but so far I've been staying away from them. I can't pinpoint it specifically, I'm just not a fan.
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I'm sure one of 'em will be along shortly to 'alter' your thinking! :uhoh:

I got nuttin' against 'em, but I don't have a Glock wrist, and I do kinda like the added measure of safety provided by the XD grip safety (Google 'Glock Leg' for some interesting reading).

If you learn how to holster correctly, the grip safety provides an extra measure of safety to prevent AD/ND, the majority of which occur while holstering.
Check out the last picture at The Cornered Cat page-I place the pad of my thumb on the back of the slide instead of extending my finger fully as she is in the picture. I find it gives me more tactile feedback and I can put more pressure on the slide to keep it from moving, and it also jacks the web of my hand up more to remove it from the grip safety.

Being a passive safety, no forgetting to deactivate it if the stress of the moment gets to ya.

EDIT: If you're new to CC, might I recommend Massad Ayoob's In The Gravest Extreme and possibly The Gun Digest Book of Concealed Carry.

Heck-anything by Ayoob would be good-you need to spend 'bout as much time (if not more) on the legal aspects!
 
I suggest you consider the S&W M&P, if .40 S&W is your choice.

For some incredibly stupid reason one cannot rack the slide on an XD unless the grip safety is completely depressed, which could be an issue if the shooter has to operate the slide one-handed because of an injury.

Good luck with your choice.
 
I second the 9mm suggestions. If I could trade my G22 and G27 for an equally modified G17 and G26, I'd probably do it. The only thing that stops me from making the switch to 9mm is that I already have several hundred dollars above MSRP wrapped up in my Glocks, and don't want to invest the time and money it would take to start over.

In Glock, a G19 (compact 9mm) or G23 (compact .40) would fit your needs, but if you don't like Glocks then maybe not (hey, they're not for everyone). Find a range nearby that rents a variety of firearms, try out anything in your pricerange, and buy whatever you're most comfortable with. It's hard to go wrong with any modern combat auto from a reputable manufacturer.

R
 
Grynch31b said:
Glocks from what I've heard had some decent customer service (selection too), but so far I've been staying away from them. I can't pinpoint it specifically, I'm just not a fan.
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I just can't warm up to Glocks either (especially the full size guns) but the little G27 isn't too shabby. But again, thats why often I've said CCW guns are like underwear ... some like boxers, some like briefs (we won't discuss those that go commando). Keep in mind that all those Negligent Discharges you read about with Glocks are just that Negligence. Follow the 4 rules and you're fine.

I didn't realize there were any problems with the Walther and I didn't realize you couldn't rack the slide on the XD without the grip safety depressed.


Of all the guns discussed in this thread, the S&W M&P has impressed me the most.

I've been a big fan of .40 for a long time and most of my carry guns over the years have been .40. Nothing wrong with 9mm though (and it does have the advantages of cheaper practice ammo and greater capacity in the same size gun). If you're going with something real small like a Kahr PM/MK then I would recommend 9mm over .40 (I've owned both an MK9 and an MK40 and the 9 shot tremendously better).
 
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I have heard nothing but good things about the S&W M&P's in all calibers. I prefer 45 ACP myself but there is nothing wrong with 40 or 9mm. You just have to hold all your prospective choices and find the one that just feels good. Don't forget a good holster and belt. They make all the difference in the world for all day comfort. Have fun looking and let us know what you decide.
 
My carry weapon is the M&P .40 FS. I like the weapon, good feel to it, easy to control, flawless performance so far. I went .40 because of advice from my sister who is a Capt on my hometown police force. They went from .357 to .40 for various reasons and after a LONG trial on 9mm and .40 calibers.

I went the M&P because I just do not like the look of Glocks, and my weapon is also one I wanted my wife to use. The police force had a lot of problems with Glock's jamming with female shooters because the low weight with .40 recoil, combined with the limp wristed shooting from those officers, led a lot of issues. Now really a gun issue but a mismatch of gun to shooter.

I love the look of the M&P compact in .,40, that will likely be my next handgun purchase.
 
For me, a carry gun comes down to reliability and accuracy first and foremost. I can and will learn how to use any design of weapon effectively and efficiently, so I'm doing my part, and i expect the tools I use to do their part. Here is some of my experience and my opinion.

Walther: In my experience, the QC displayed in walther pistols from the last 5/6 years is enough to disqualify them from any future purchases, let alone trusting my life on them. IMO I'd steer away for a while.

XD: I've had an XD 9mm for over 5 years and have surely shot upwards of 30,000 rounds through it and have only had two malfunctions, both FTE, and both were at the end of a long group of three days at the range where over 5000 rounds were shot without cleaning in between. I would trust my life with it without a moments hesitation. Also very easy to clean. I've only had 100 rounds on the newer XDm models.

Sigs, S&W MPs: Only rented them, no real experience to speak to.

Glock: Recently purchased a Glock 22 RTF2 a couple weeks ago, have put over a thousand rounds on it since then and not had a single problem. Also very easy to clean, like the XD. Not enough personal experience with it yet to trust for carry, but Glocks do seem to have a pretty well proven track record, so you probably not a bad choice.

All have the capability of being wonderfully accurate, so really no concerns there.
 
For a slim carry gun, look very closely at th Kahr CW9 or CW40. Same size and same price, normally. They are great guns and conceal well and price is reasonable.
 
Thanks for all the feedback guys!

Honestly, I have thought about 9mm. I didn't share a bit of my other background information. I'm prior service (still in actually) and recently returned home from a deployment in support of OIF. We carried the M9 (Beretta 92FS) and after carrying that I am pretty turned off to 9mm. I've shot different versions of the XD (all in .40), so I've grown used to the grip safety for the most part. Also, I live in NY, so magazine capacity is limited as is.

I have been researching extensively on the PPS, for the most part I see a recurring issue (albeit an issue that was posted numerous times dated 2007ish 2008ish) where the slide locks to the rear and the release does not disengage and allow the slide forward. Besides that I see the occasional stove-piping issues and other various issues. I'm going to steer away from Walther's for now, which only pushes me further towards looking into Sig's again.

I'll look in the the M&P's a bit and also look into Kahr's a bit more, didn't look at any as of yet. So far, though, I'm still leaning towards the XD or a Sig. Thanks again for the feedback guys!
 
We carried the M9 (Beretta 92FS) and after carrying that I am pretty turned off to 9mm.
Click to expand...

I too hate the M9. But modern hollowpoints can overcome most of the disadvantages of the 9mm FMJ you were carrying. ;)

Also, I live in NY, so magazine capacity is limited as is.
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On the other hand, if you're stuck with a fixed mag capacity, then you may as well make 'em bigger rounds.

R
 
Personally, i would avoid a Walther like the plague, especially if you were gonna bet your life on it, and anything by their parent company S&W. In my opinion, based on many many accounts, they just dont build them like they used too. There are certain weapons, on our companies banned list. After testing, certain brands were deamed too unreliable to allow our field operatives to carry. Examples: Jennings, Davis, Raven, Walther pp series, Colt pony. Gen III smith automatics are approved, all others subject to test and inspection. 1911 style autos while approved have to be inspected first. 1980 series gold cups dont make the cut either.
Our operatives lives may depend in their sidearm that is why any carry weapon is screened.
Glocks, any make approved
Taurus, Most makes approved ,exceptions are the pt22 and pt25
Fn, any make approved
Ruger, Most makes approved on a case by case basis
Kel tec, Must have approval from the head of weapons and training dept on an individual basis (that would be lil ol me)
Star/Iver Johnson Must be approved on a case by case basis.
case by case examines a certain series, individual is for that one gun.
 
I have a sccy cpx-1 that I use as my daily carry...without a finger extension on the magazine. Hanging fingers are fine, you get used to them. I just tuck my pinky under the floorplate of the magazine and fire.

The key is whatever you get, feed ammo through by hand to see how it feeds (first round or so by pushing the slide into place, see if it feeds smoothly, if not, it's going to jam eventually, send it in or do something with it. Once you have something that feeds smoothly, start letting the slide to the work, and see if it can feed/extract three magazines...if it can, off to the range, run 200 rounds through to be certain there's no light strikes or misfeeds/jams (use ammo reccomended by the firearm maker for best results)...if it works fine with what they reccomend, now go look for what you like....that way you know the gun is proven, and any issue is ammo compatibility instead of "the gun".

Some guns will take any ammo you throw at it, others will not...which is why testing within factory approved parameters is great for any firearm that will be used defensively. Even the best maker has a dud in their production line....it's the carrier's duty to make sure theirs isn't it.
 
New to Concealed Carry
I've recently obtained my concealed carry permit and have been debating and researching over pistols, figured I would ask here. I'm not new to firearms completely, so I've narrowed my wants down a bit and also kind of narrowed some of my other choices down.

I've fired xD's before, I like them, but if anyone has input on things other than xD's I'd love to hear it. I'm pretty set on my first being a .40 SW, but I'm floating back and forth between Springfield, Walther, and Sig Sauer (s') various models. As it is going to be my first concealed carry, I'd like it to be compact enough that it's not noticeable, but I've held a Ruger LCP before and I am completely uncomfortable with the idea of a "compact" pistol that not all of my meat hooks fit on the grip. I also want a pistol of good quality that the slide isn't going to rust if I wear it to go to the range and back home. Price is an issue as in any case, but not including prices in any of your opinions, any feedback or recommendations are welcome.

Thanks! (If there was a previous topic I haven't found yet, a link would be nice, or if this is in the wrong sub-forum let me know)
Click to expand...
Kel Tec has just introduced a 9rd grip for the P3AT .380 pistol that the LCP is based on. It has a full sized grip, and should fit in the LCP just fine...and it'll let your LCP hold 10 rounds. (assuming it does indeed fit, which it should)
 
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gun guy said:
Our operatives lives may depend in their sidearm that is why any carry weapon is screened.
Click to expand...

Who are your operatives, (not specific names of course), if you don't mind me asking?
 
Ive owned a PPS9 and now carry an XD SC .40 and while i feel more confident with the .40 as a caliber the PPS sure was alot easier to carry.

Other than that, Against all the other guns ive seen you mention id stay with the XD .40 of the size you like. Especially at the price they almost give them away at now days.
$399 is the normal price for me locally for the essential package as the loaded case with all the accessories is a waste imo.

Im a full sized 1911 guy as i just love that long slide and weight, Its comforting at times.
But many times in the summer its just the wrong gun to carry in shorts and lite clothing and my XD SC .40 takes its place.

Ill admit tho a Glock could do the same job just as good but a tad more expensive.
The S&W M&P makes me dislike it more and more i read about it everyday.
SIG? Of the new ones i could afford the area of the hammer looks like the rear of the gun is missing or fell off. IE 250
But they make many other amazing guns, But used is the best route imo due to price.
 
I'd never consider how a CCW looks in whether or not to buy one, concealed means not being seen. A lot of that is fad any way. I remember when Sig first tried to market their 220 and everyone said how ugly it was. A few years later Sigs were all of sudden great looking.

I'd decide how you are going to carry, which decides how big or small you want to go and begin there. If you can only carry ten rounds then bigger bullets does make some sense.

Pick whatever feels best your hand and you can afford and then rent one and shoot it. Then try your next choice. I don't think there is a lot difference between reliability of major manufacturers selling a proven time tested design. You don't buy a new operating system until the first patch comes out.

Finally, your not marrying this gun, chances are your going to end up getting a different one sooner or later. But it will give you a base of experience and carrying is different from range guns. You are going to be living with this thing all the time, cute traits will turn annoying. It will be too long or too thick and what makes one person happy will drive someone else away. As one person switches to a single stack another is getting something with more bullets. You don't know which person you are until you actually live with it.
 
.40 cal is NOT a good choice compared to the 9mm. It has been proven that how many and shot placement is more important than caliber to get the job done. The 9mm has far less recoil, far more available and much less exspensive = you to be able to buy more ammo and practice at the range. Also... you, like me last year... new to carry... spend the money saved to get further professional defensive training. I carry a M&P9c with a (modifeid sear, poundage at 4 lbs, less reset travel) in a Raven Phantom IWB holster. I have a Glock 19 with a TLR1 light on the rail sitting on my bed with a loaded mag near by.

Learn to carry loaded and chambered (safety OFF) in a good holster that covers the trigger guard.
my 2cents

Just to add... There was a home invasion three years ago in my neighborhood where the home owner was home when the BG broke in..long story short... the home owner shot the BG TWICE (once in the left hip, and the other in the left lung) with his .40 cal and the BG RAN OUT OF THE HOUSE, HALF WAY DOWN THE BLOCK BEFORE HE COLLAPSED!!
 
XDs are good guns, as are Glocks and Smith & Wesson’s M&P pistols, all with relatively the same operational characteristics. In terms of preferences, I’ll mention these things, and rank them from most-favored to least:

GRIP
M&P, XD, Glock

Smith & Wesson’s M&P blows out of the water everything I’ve tried, and I especially like the ease with which the grip inserts can be swapped out. Far better design than any others I’ve groped. The XD used to win this one for me, but since I often share a pistol with a small-handed shooter, the M&P design is wonderful. The Glock grip, by comparison, is square and blocky, and the grip angle causes it to point high in my paw. Not so the others.

TRIGGER
Glock, M&P, XD

The stock Glock trigger is stiff, but the pull (at least from tripping point) and reset are short and clear. Love that. The M&P’s stock trigger is stiffer than the XD’s, and though the reset is short, that reset feels much more vague than Glock’s. The XD’s initial trigger pull is the best of the lot, but the stock reset is the longest of these by far, and about as vague as the M&P’s, part of which means I’m not quite as quick with it at up-close-and-quick bang bangs, but I do slightly better with it at longer distances. Of course that may be because of the …

SIGHTS
XD, M&P, Glock

I seem to do better with the XD’s all metal 3-dot sights than I do with the others, at least on distant targets. Methinks that’s because of the front sight blade and rear sight notch widths. The M&P’s metal sights are very good, too, and though the Glock’s stock plastic sights are very easy to see quickly, they’re not as good for me at distance (past 15 yards), as the wide front sight covers up much of the target, and the rear sight notch seems pretty darn narrow.

BORE LINE
Glock, M&P, XD

This has almost no discernible effect upon my shooting or recoil management, at least as far as I can tell, but I do seem to hold tighter rapid-fire groups with the Glock and the M&P than I do the XD.

SIZE*
Glock, M&P, XD

I like the size of Glock’s 19 and 23 models, which seem about right for day-to-day concealed carry. The small M&Ps and XDs seem just a tad too small for me to be absolutely comfortable with them, and this has less to do with getting all my fingers on the grip and more to do with how much of the rear of the grip fills my hand. That is, even with pinky extensions on the magazines, I still feel too little grip against the heel of my hand to completely warm up to them (at least in the M&P, having not tried a compact version of the XD).

ROBUSTness(?)
Glock, XD, S&W

This may be a too-close-to-call race, but Glocks and XDs have great reputations in this department. The M&P likely will, too, but there is some decidedly more delicate looking gadgetry inside the M&P than in the others.

MAGAZINE RELEASE BUTTON
XD

XD beats everyone in this department for simplicity and ambidextrousness. In fact, I don’t know why pistol makers didn’t figure this out sooner and copy it all over the place. Sure, other brands let you switch magazine buttons from left- to right-handed operation by removing parts and rearranging them, but the XD button works from either side when pushed , no switcheroo required. Yeah, other brands use ambidextrous levers by the trigger guard, but I like buttons. And since the M&P is the only design of this examined lot to incorporate ambidextrous slide-lock controls, I even more curiously wonder why they didn’t steal XD’s button.

All of those things aside…

… SIGs and Walthers are great guns, too, but I don’t have any useful experience with them. Were I buying from your list, I’d likely go with the XD, but not before renting wringing out the others on the firing line.

Good luck with your choices.
 
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