New (to me) 1884 Springfield Trapdoor

[Durango_Dave]

I bought a model 1884 Springfield Trapdoor made in 1887.



This model has a “Buffington” sight. When you keep it down it’s for 100 yard range. (notice the windage adjustment)



When you flip it up it can be adjusted for farther distances. Here it’s set for 300 yards.



And in this next picture it is set to the max, a very optimistic 1400 yards (0.8 miles)



If you look carefully at the sights you see it moves to the left as you raise the slider. It’s at an angle. It’s like they expect the bullet to move to the right during long distance shots. Well actually that's only if you hold the gun perfectly level from side to side. That's the problem with ladder sights for long distances. If you tilt the gun slightly to the side your rear sight is now off to the side.

This gun was made by the US government for the army. Back then the Springfield Armory was the US government arms manufacturing.
I also have a Springfield Armory 1911. My 1911 has an emblem saying the Springfield Armory was around since 1794 but they actually stole the name from the government.



The new Springfield Armory has nothing to do with the Springfield Armory that's been around since 1794. For more info check out this video.


It shoots black powder .45-70 cartridges. I've handloaded for years but never black powder. Where's a good place to buy bullets lubed for black powder?

 

[earlthegoat2]

Very nice rifle and the primer on the Buffington sight was very interesting.

The video is not showing, however.

 

[Durango_Dave]

Very nice rifle and the primer on the Buffington sight was very interesting.

The video is not showing, however.

Fixed

 

[AzShooter1]

Excellent. Video is working well now.

I had and 1884 also. It was a great rifle. A friend that was really impressed by it decided he wanted it more than I did so I sold it to him. MISTAKE.

He still enjoys it and that's the important thing.

 

[NIGHTLORD40K]

Beautiful Trapdoor, Dave!

 

[Captain*kirk]

I bought a model 1884 Springfield Trapdoor made in 1887.
It shoots black powder .45-70 cartridges. I've handloaded for years but never black powder. Where's a good place to buy bullets lubed for black powder?

Congrats on a gorgeous and historic piece!
You can buy bulk bullets lubed for black powder from MidwayUSA or Buffalo Arms, among others. Just make sure you check to make sure they are lubed with SPG lube. I've been buying the Montana Precision Swaging SPG lubed 535gr Postell bullets for my Sharps from Midway but there are quite a few different bullet weights and shapes to choose from:

https://www.midwayusa.com/bullets/br?cid=19785&Brand=Montana+Precision+Swaging&Diameter=0.458+Inches

Right now there is free shipping with orders .$49.00 + Pretty good considering package freight is based on size and weight.

 

[Durango_Dave]

Congrats on a gorgeous and historic piece!
You can buy bulk bullets lubed for black powder from MidwayUSA or Buffalo Arms, among others. Just make sure you check to make sure they are lubed with SPG lube. I've been buying the Montana Precision Swaging SPG lubed 535gr Postell bullets for my Sharps from Midway but there are quite a few different bullet weights and shapes to choose from:

https://www.midwayusa.com/bullets/br?cid=19785&Brand=Montana+Precision+Swaging&Diameter=0.458+Inches

Right now there is free shipping with orders .$49.00 + Pretty good considering package freight is based on size and weight.

Thanks for the info!

 

[Alexitt]

Very nice, I just traded mine away for a Clay Smith Flintlock... Mine was a cut-down that was done a long time ago and done well, it shot nicely but ammo/primers were an issue for me... A buddy of mine who is about 5'6" had a flinter he took in trade for some smith work but the gun is 64" long so it has never been fired... The only way for him to load it would be to tilt it or stand on a box which according to him would be good for a chuckle but not very practical... So we both had guns that were very cool but not really usable for us so we swapped and both came away happy...Enjoy yours, they're a lot of fun and get a lot of comments at the range...
Whoever did the cut down did nice work...

This is what I swapped her for...

 

[JT-AR-MG42]

Alexitt,
The trapdoor is really neat looking in that configuration.
Tough you had to move it.
But I can see why you moved it all right.

Let us read/see more info on the flint lock.
Caliber and such.
It has a poor boy look to it - no butt plate?
Single trigger? I much prefer them myself.

Thanks to you and the OP for sharing.

JT

 

[Alexitt]

Alexitt,
The trapdoor is really neat looking in that configuration.
Tough you had to move it.
But I can see why you moved it all right.

Let us read/see more info on the flint lock.
Caliber and such.
It has a poor boy look to it - no butt plate?
Single trigger? I much prefer them myself.

Thanks to you and the OP for sharing.

JT

Sorry to the OP, didn't mean to hijack your thread... You made a great score and you'll love it...

It's a Clay Smith Virginia "Barn Gun" originally made in the white... Not sure who did the finish work on it... Just got done with an e-mail conversation with Clay to try to find out a bit more... Got a Chambers Virginia lock (frizzen is practically un-marked), 44" .50 cal Colerain barrel, nice curly maple stock, balance and feel is perfect for me... Haven't had the chance to take her out and put her through her paces yet but the weekend is coming... We both came away happy with the trade, my buddy had a couple other 45-70s and has all the reloading gear for it, while I scored a beautiful new rocklock (my 2nd)... I like the single trigger for the flinters, my percussion guns have doubles...

 

[.455_Hunter]

Nice Trapdoor!

The Buffington sight is really a pinnacle of design and manufacture, in production up until the WWII 1903A3 Springfield simplifications.

I have one of the rod-bayonet ones from just before production was shutdown for the Krag- it's truly an American martial masterpiece.

 

[Jim Watson]

Teddy Roosevelt didn't agree on the rod bayonet as carried over to the 1903.

 

[.455_Hunter]

Teddy Roosevelt didn't agree on the rod bayonet as carried over to the 1903.

Yup- For some reason it skipped the Krag and then got resurrected with the 1903. Definitely not the finest feature of the designs, but still very interesting.

 

[Durango_Dave]

When this rifle was made the .45-70 was the cartridge of choice when it comes to long distance shooting. To use the sight at long distances the gun can't be tilted side to side at all. In my earlier post I made it sound like this was a problem with the sight. Actually it's an issue with the ballistics of the .45-70. You'd have the same issue if you used a modern BDC (Bullet Drop Compensation) scope. Compared to modern bullets the .45-70 is like hurling a brick through the air. Look at this comparison to the 308 Winchester.

 

[Captain*kirk]

Very true. However, the right bullet combo paired with a good compensating sight makes long range seem easy. There are guys shooting .45/70 BPCR and ringing gongs with consistency out to 900 yards and beyond. Just check out 'Sagebrush Longshots' on You Tube, like this one:

 

[.455_Hunter]

Very true. However, the right bullet combo paired with a good compensating sight makes long range seem easy. There are guys shooting .45/70 BPCR and ringing gongs with consistency out to 900 yards and beyond. Just check out 'Sagebrush Longshots' on You Tube, like this one:

Yes- Even with pre-Buffington sights, I have shot my older 1873-series Trapdoor in competition out to 1000 yards. It's great fun!

 

[Dave T]

Cap'in, too bad ol' Sagebrush doesn't use real gunpowder. LOL

Dave

 

[Captain*kirk]

Cap'in, too bad ol' Sagebrush doesn't use real gunpowder. LOL

Dave

Some of them do. The guy in that vid (Steve) has another video where he's shooting BPCR loaded with 1.5FG and pretty much the same results.

 

[Ugly Sauce]

Whoa! Now yer talking! Beautiful rifle, I think the Trapdoors are the best. I have a rifle made in 1884, although it is a M1873. It had the Buffingtons on it, but man, those were totally un-useable for me. I prefer iron sights, have good eyes, and in fact only have three scoped rifles (which I seldom use) but the Buffingtons just did not work, so I switched it over to the 1873 rifle sights.

I'm sure there's quite a variety of cast bullets out there. A replica of the 405 grain bullet with small hollow base would be a winner. LEE makes a mold for that bullet and it's what I mostly use. Casting large bullets is not rocket-science. Small caliber bullets can be a pain. I load that bullet over 72 grains of 3fg and it's quite accurate. I also load the Speer 400 grain JSP over 80 grains of black, but it's not good to run a lot of jacketed bullets through a Trapdoor. Those loads are mostly for my Marlin, but I have the Springfield sighted in for them, and do take it hunting once in a great while.



I also have a carbine, which is not a "true" carbine. However, I think it is a Bannerman. It was made in 1876, an early gun. Whatever it is, she shoots the 405 grain bullet (416 out of my mold) over 72 grains of 3fg quite accurately. This was a 100 yard group. You can see I put the Buffingtons on it just for fun for a short while. Yes they are accurate sights, but I'd sure never get them lined up on a deer quickly enough.

 

[Iggy]

Durango Dave,

That is one dandy fine lookin' Trapdoor.
Back at the turn of the last century, my grandparents moved for MO to Wyoming to homestead.
My Granddad bought a Trapdoor Rifle from Bannerman's just in case of Indians or rustlers. He paid $7.50 for it and a box of shells.
He never fired the rifle, and it stood in the corner of the saddle room in the barn for 47 years.

After they moved to town and abandoned the place, my Dad and I were snooping around, and I found the TD. It was in terrible shape.
My Dad said I was too young to have a rifle like that, and we took it home, and he put it in the back of a closet. It was there for another 30 years.

When my folks moved to town, I quit LE and moved back to the ranch, I found the old rifle in the closet and decided to see if I could rejuvenate it.
I determined that it was a model 1879. The stock was weathered and cracked, and the barrel was nearly rusted shut. It had a Buffington sight on it, but I traded it for a
Model 1879 version.

I found an unfired rifle barrel and got a sporterized stock from Rhinehart-Fajen and went to work.

I know it's a hanging offense to sporterize an old gun like this, but it is my favorite rifle.
I have taken Elk, Mule Deer, Antelope and untold numbers of varmints with it.

My version of the Officer's Model Target Trapdoor.

 

[Ugly Sauce]

Durango Dave,

That is one dandy fine lookin' Trapdoor.
Back at the turn of the last century, my grandparents moved for MO to Wyoming to homestead.
My Granddad bought a Trapdoor Rifle from Bannerman's just in case of Indians or rustlers. He paid $7.50 for it and a box of shells.
He never fired the rifle, and it stood in the corner of the saddle room in the barn for 47 years.

After they moved to town and abandoned the place, my Dad and I were snooping around, and I found the TD. It was in terrible shape.
My Dad said I was too young to have a rifle like that, and we took it home, and he put it in the back of a closet. It was there for another 30 years.

When my folks moved to town, I quit LE and moved back to the ranch, I found the old rifle in the closet and decided to see if I could rejuvenate it.
I determined that it was a model 1879. The stock was weathered and cracked, and the barrel was nearly rusted shut. It had a Buffington sight on it, but I traded it for a
Model 1879 version.

I found an unfired rifle barrel and got a sporterized stock from Rhinehart-Fajen and went to work.

I know it's a hanging offense to sporterize an old gun like this, but it is my favorite rifle.
I have taken Elk, Mule Deer, Antelope and untold numbers of varmints with it.
View attachment 1079752
My version of the Officer's Model Target Trapdoor.

You will be hung at high noon. However, since you did such a nice job, and it was a wreck to begin with, we've decided on a suspended sentence, and five minutes probation.

 

[Driftwood Johnson]

Howdy

My Trapdoor is the earlier 1873 Model. It left the factory in 1883.






Mine has the 1879 style rear sight.








For shooting up to 100 yards I leave the blade down. The rear sight blade can slide up along the two rails on either side of the sight base for longer ranges.






For serious long range shooting, the blade flips up and the sight can ride up on the blade. If you look closely you can see the tiny aperture used for long range shooting. (Disclaimer: I don't think I have ever shot my Trapdoor at ranges over 100 yards, so I have never actually raised the rear sight like this while shooting.)






You might be surprised to learn that in the Sandy Hook Trials of 1879 a 45-70 Trapdoor was consistently hitting a target with a six foot diameter bullseye 2500 yards away. Yes, 2500 yards. I believe this was accomplished with a sight similar to mine, since the Buffington sight on your trap door was not introduced until 1884.









I load my Black Powder 45-70 rounds with Winchester brass, Winchester Large Rifle primers, 70 grains of Schuetzen FFg, a .030 thick wad on top of the powder and a .458 diameter, 405 grain bullet. There is no need for hollow based bullets for Black Powder 45-70 ammo, the bullet I use has a flat base. These bullets are lubed for Black Powder. I bought several boxes from Buffalo Arms a number of years ago, the bullets were made by Montana Precision Swaging. I do not think they are still in business, but Buffalo Arms is. I don't see the same bullet in their catalog that I use, but this one is very close, just a little bit heavier.

https://www.buffaloarms.com/459-425-grain-fn-quality-han-457643-459.html






As with all Black Powder cartridges, there must be no air space at all left in the cartridge. I use a compression die (which I also bought from Buffalo Arms) to compress the powder a bit before seating and crimping my bullets.

Crimping is not absolutely necessary with a single shot rifle, but I like to crimp my cartridges. This is my set of Lyman 45-70 dies. The compression die is sitting at the top of the set, I pop it into the 'belling die' do compress the powder.






I load all my 45-70 ammo on my old Lyman Spartan single stage press. I seat my primers with the RCBS primer tool shown here.






I trickle my powder down a 24" drop tube into the cases. The pistol is only in the photo for scale.






I just loaded up a batch of 45-70 ammo a couple of days ago. On Sunday I plan on bringing my Trapdoor to the local annual Black Powder CAS match where we will be shooting our single shot rifles in addition to our normal CAS firearms.

 

[Iggy]

Do some research on the “B” between the 2&3 on the left side of the 1879 rear sight.
It is the “Battle sight “ setting.

You can see it if you look closely at the picture posted earlier in this thread.
Interesting stuff.

 

[Durango_Dave]

Good info!
Have you slugged your barrel? If my barrel is not standard diameter I'd need to make my own bullets or at east resize them.

 

[Ugly Sauce]

Good info!
Have you slugged your barrel? If my barrel is not standard diameter I'd need to make my own bullets or at east resize them.

I think the Springfield barrels usually run about .460", that's what I've heard anyhow. I've never slugged mine, but always shoot pure lead bullets and always get good accuracy. When shooting the Speer JSP bullet at .458", accuracy is still good, (minute of bear, deer or elk for sure) but not as good as the cast bullets, so obviously .458" is a tad small for the rifle. I've never shot the Speer in my carbine. Out of my LEE mold, the 405 (416 grains as I eliminated the hollow base) measures .460" exactly.