New to rifles, want some advice please!!

[CAgunslinger]

Let me preface my noobdom by saying that I've been a handgun and shotgun owner for years. I'm finally sick of being envious of those shooting on the 100 yd range next to me. From reading posts on here it seems that you are a very knowledgeable bunch so your inputs are appreciated.

Here's what I'm thinking and some things to keep in mind:

- I live in CA
- Thinking of either a .17HMR, .22LR, .22-250, or .223
- Want the ammo to be economical
- Not particular to any brand but want a gun that looks decent and shoots well
- Looking for a "mid range" priced rifle, don't need high end
- Something to shoot scoped or with irons
- Want something I can have fun at the range with and take out to shoot varmints/squirrels/coyotes
- Something durable (in other words I won't care about scratching it)
- Would really like a nice effective range (300 or so yards, more if possible)

I know that's quite a laundry list (I don't even know if it's all possible, throwing my thoughts out there). I guess I'm looking for inputs first on what caliber is best for this, with a priority on cost of the ammo but still has a nice range. Then I'll take inputs on the brand/model of gun! And most importantly, why!

Thanks for your inputs!

 

[heron]

Obviously, .22LR is the cheapest to feed. Unfortunately, it won't be much good at 300 yds. I'm not sure the .17 will either.

Have a look at the Savages. Inexpensive, very accurate. The plastic stocked models aren't exceptionally beautiful, but are durable enough. Accu-trigger is great.

When you start thinking of both scope and iron sights, you'll run up against the problem of getting a proper cheek weld -- you'll have it for one configuration or the other, but not both, unless you get some kind of removable pad, like this:

http://www.brownells.com/aspx/NS/store/productdetail.aspx?p=20875&st=&s=#specs

I don't know how well those work, btw.

Hope this helps.

 

[sturmgewehr667]

ah, for once, a garand is not the answer


savage makes a .17 hmr that is very accurate

http://personalsecurityzone.com/cgi.../PSZ/?Template=ProdDetail.htm&ProductID=25708

i have one with a thumbhole laminated stock.

 

[Gord]

Savage makes good rifles in general; they're well known for great accuracy at a great price point. Pick up a .22LR to begin with - they're cheap to feed, will help you get your rifle fundamentals down and are just fine for plinking out to 100 yards. Look around the pawnshops for deals on used guns or, if you want to buy new, take a look at the various Savage .22s and the Remington 597 - nice, solid "big boy" gun with a much better stock than the Savages. If you'd like something a little nicer, look at the CZ 452.

Your best bet for an inexpensive centerfire will be dictated by what caliber you want. .223 would be a fine varmint round, but ammo's fairly scarce and expensive right now due to ban worries and the War on Terrorism™.

 

[saturno_v]

What is your budget??

You want a rifle with scope??

Any other bigger game needs other than coyotes and other varmint??

If you want to be limited to small game and 300 yards shooting, the 223 is your toy, easiest ammo to find in that category.

You can get one of the "do everything" .30 caliber like the .308 or the 30-06...with the right loads you are good to go from Coyote to Moose and more (especially with the 30-06)....ammo extremely easy to find everywhere and cheap too.

For $80-90 you can get a very good Mosin Nagant which is a powerhouse (same class of a 30-06) and very accurate (many people shoot them 600+ yards) if you find a good specimen. The cheapest full power cartridge around at the moment. But if you want a scope it's not the right choice...

 

[jbkebert]

I 2nd on the Savage rifle. I personally prefer the 22-250 but the .223 will give you a better selection of bullet weights and uses. Also I think the .223 has alot broader range of prices of ammo. 300yards with a .17hmr is really pushing it. Just my 2cents

 

[husker]

keep coming back to THR my cals. 223 fast flat,22-50 very fast and flat. .17 nice to. good night time coon rifle. go fined some guns you like. where ever. and come back hear ask some ????? PS leave the squirrels to a 410,22,crossman 760 pump bb gun,slingshot,kids ect. but for dogs cats fox terrorists the first two are go getters. dont jump on no scope either. they can be more than the gun.

 

[Gord]

(many people shoot them 600+ yards)

Okay, my Mosins are perfectly serviceable plinkers and all, but...

I would have suggested a Mosin, but accuracy is a crapshoot and they aren't beginners' guns as far as needing to be able to check barrel and crown condition and so forth. I also wouldn't want to shoot a squirrel with one.

Okay, I would, but from behind some plexiglas...

 

[saturno_v]

If you are a beginner and you do not want to be worried about checking the condition of an used rifle, $300-400 put a new Stevens or a Savage (308, 30-06 or 7 mm Rem Mag) synthetic stock coupled your cheap "run of the mill" 3-9X 40 scope in your hands.

A good choice to start.

$400, at the moment, give you a nice new Weatherby Vanguard (Synthetic stock) with no scope.

 

[saturno_v]

Okay, my Mosins are perfectly serviceable plinkers and all, but...

I would have suggested a Mosin, but accuracy is a crapshoot and they aren't beginners' guns as far as needing to be able to check barrel and crown condition and so forth. I also wouldn't want to shoot a squirrel with one.

Okay, I would, but from behind some plexiglas...

A fake Mosin sniper at 640 yards..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vDIypxgwzXs&feature=PlayList&p=B19BA207A8004611&playnext=1&index=25

300 yards M44 shooting

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rblSfFGTvLY&feature=related

I agree, checking the conditions is not for beginners but he could always bring an experienced person with him before buying one.

To get an accurate Mosin is fundamental the sharpness of the rifling, non pitted/dark bore and sharp non damaged crown.

 

[Gord]

I'm not disputing that Mosins can shoot at 600+ yards, just that your average $80 rack Mosin isn't likely to do so with any consistency. OTOH, I wouldn't want to be within a mile of a good rifleman with a legitimate 91/30 ex-sniper - which the rifle in those videos is.

 

[saturno_v]

The 91/30 in the video is a fake sniper...a very good 91/30 probably from the same $80 rack then trasformed to look like a sniper.

However 600 yards hits are rare more because of the human factor than the capability of the rifle...

These cheap Mosins can be a real gem if you know what to look for.....get one with half rifling gone or even just the crown damaged and you get keyholes at 50 yards...

Even non match Dragunov in the right hands have no problem with 600 yards hit...

 

[Gord]

Whoops, yeah, my bad. His other videos label it a P/U so I assumed it was genuine - he really should change that to "faux PU" or something.

I also agree that the biggest hindrance to long-range shooting accuracy 99% of the time is the shooter, but good luck finding anyone who's willing to admit that. Therefore, "THEM MOSINS AINT GOOD FOR NUTHIN I GET 11 INCH GROUPS AT 100 YDS WITH MINE."

Admittedly, I'm not a paper-puncher, but I have no problem blasting cans of soda or bits of clay pigeon with any of my rifles, including my Mosins, out to a couple hundred yards. Hell, I plink at five-gallon buckets at a hundred yards with my CZ-52, which, despite a slightly pitted barrel, throws 'em on target eight or nine times out of ten. I cut wild daisies down at around 75 yards with my little Savage 64 in the summers for a bit of fun.

I'm not sure why Mosins have such a bad reputation as far as accuracy goes. Could be that it's an easy rifle to shoot badly, much like the AK, since they have similar irons; could be that I've just been fortunate with my rifling and crowns, or that they're trying to shoot their M44s with bayos extended or unscrewed, or something...

 

[rangerruck]

17 ammo, though cheapest of this bunch , has a 200 yd limit. go with a 223, and really , anything made nowadays for low end rifles will be good. if you want to shoot bench a bit more, and put together strings, go with a heavy bbl, pencil or sporter bbls, will heat up too fast, and you will start to spread your group.
Next is sights, you will have to look around a bit, almost no one makes a varmint / heavy bbl with sights anymore, and if they do, the rear site is usually just a leaf or v site. Remmy is one of the few companies left, that makes a fully adjustable rear sight, with screws and lines, and measure/repeatability.

 

[Gord]

OP, it's also worth mentioning that if you're just looking to have some occasional long-range fun, your shotgun would make a fine slug launcher. You can get 'em around fifty cents apiece in bulk, and 100-yard shooting is perfectly doable; it's just that the recoil is going to preclude any all-day, 200-round range sessions, unless you're into S&M anyway.

 

[CZ223]

Lets start with your choices in caliber

if you really intend on shooting coyotes out to 300 yards then you are gonna want to go with a center fire like the 223 or the 22-250. To your list of calibers I would add the 204 Ruger. If you keep you shots to under 200 then the 17 is just the ticket. Inexpensive to shoot, outstanding accuracy and, enough power to take even some smaller coyotes out to about 200. In the centerfires I would pick the 223 first, mostly for cost. The 22-250 certainly has more power than the 223 or the 204 but the 204 is a tack driver.

I will cast my vote for the Savage rifle. I like mine with the wood/laminate stock and heavt stainless barrels.

 

[saturno_v]

I'm not sure why Mosins have such a bad reputation as far as accuracy goes.

Actually among real firearms connoisseurs is quite the contrary..they have a very good reputation for accuracy.....The Mosin nagant is universally recognized (among gun experts) as one of the finest, if not the finest, sniper rifle of WWII

The problem is that when we got inundated by them at the end of the cold war, many of these rifles were not in good shape...you know the story...in these $80 racks you can find pure junk or real gem..and if you don't know what to look for you are going to be disappointed.

The low price (sometimes as little as $59), unfortunately, attract a lot of people not very knowledgeable about guns....often folks on a tight budget than never shot almost anything before....I saw people at sportings goods stores picking up a Mosin instead of a cheap 22 "just to get a rifle to have fun plinking"...based purely on price...or got one for their teenager's birthday or just because they are cheap and so just buying "something"...they do not know what to look for, probably they are not good at shooting to begin with, most use crappy milsurp ammo with them etc...many of these poor rifles are going to be horribly butchered and mutilated to try the make them "look cool" and probably ending up being seriously damaged in the process...put all of this together and you have a nice recipe for am average "range disaster"...keyholing, couldn't hit the side of a barn at 10 yards and so on....so the "reputation" is generated.

When I got mine at the typical big box sporting goods store, I took almost 40 minutes for each of them (I own 3) to check everything..once the clerk told me he rarely saw people buying a Mosin doing such extensive check-up...most of them, he said, just cycled the action couple of times!!!...He was fascinated about the details he was learning about the rifle..

Many current Mosin owners had no idea what a Mosin-Nagant was 5-10 years ago......and many of them would never get close even to a $300 Mauser K98

If I could afford it, I would launch a "Mosin-Nagant rescue campaing" trying to buy as many (in good shape) as I could...it's sad that such historical rifle often end up being the mistreated and abused toy of a gun ignorant individual.

 

[Travis Bickle]

Check out the FN-49. IMO, that's the best deal going for those who live in states with AWBs. You posted that you want one that's not too expensive to feed, so you'll probably want one in 7.62 NATO or .30-06.