New York open carry in woods?

[SleazyRider]

Can a holder of a New York CCW carry openly in the woods? I've heard some folks say "yes," because it is not in public (even though the forest may belong to the State of New York), and some say "no," becaused concealed means concealed. If one is allowed to hunt with a handgun then, does it have to be concealed or can it be carried openly while hunting, only to be concealed back in the parking lot when entering the public eye? What about while hiking in the deep woods in the off-season?

I'd appreciate your thoughts on this. Thanks!

 

[USSR]

SleazyRider,

With the NYS pistol permit system, you can be issued a permit that allows concealed carry or not. Without the concealed carry stipulation on your permit, you are only allowed open carry; with the concealed carry stipulation, you are allowed both open and concealed carry. When hunting on NYS forest lands that allow hunting, carry as you wish with a concealed carry permit.

Don

 

[GarandOwner]

I would double check with your STATE's law concerning open carry. It is different for each. In Virginia, you can open carry anywhere, here in Florida, you are aloud to open carry while hunting or fishing. Wording can be tricky, so make sure you understand it before you open carry

 

[scottgun]

A NYS CCW permit gives you the privilege of concealed carry, not open carry.

Also, where are the woods in question? Private land, state park? Carrying a pistol in any manner is illegal in State Parks. A little googling will provide some references.

But then again, in theory, if a man open carries in the woods and nobody is around to see him....
eta - I'm not advocating this, just sayin

 

[30 cal slob]

IIRC, mere possession of a firearm in a NYS park is illegal.

see pp. 14-15

http://nysparks.state.ny.us/news/public/archive/Rules_Regulations.pdf

 

[Sunray]

CCW and handgun hunting are two different things that'll be covered by two different laws. NYS hunting regs will tell you about hunting with a handgun. It's most likely not legal to carry concealed while hunting. If you're in the bush, hunting, you're in 'public'.

 

[SleazyRider]

Hmmmm ... this is food for thought, and I appreciate the responses. The land I refer to specifically is called the Neversink River Unique Area, which is administered by the NYS Department of Environmental Conservation. And the reason I pose the question is because I was hiking there just the other day, and as I stopped to gulp down a tuna sandwich deep in the woods, I noted an abundance of bear scat and saw several trees which were clawed up along my route. Although I carry bear spray (which may, in its own right, be against the law depending upon to whom you speak) I'd feel better with my trusty model 66 S&W handy. And by handy I don't mean in my backpack, I mean strapped to my hip. In the wintertime I keep it concealed in a shoulder rig, but for spring and summer hikes I dress much lighter. It's not only bears that give me pause, but feral dogs as well; not to mention the most dangerous predator of all: humans. So my question involves not only hunting, but hiking as well.

Again, my thanks for your thoughts on this one!

 

[Duke of Doubt]

Are you asking, if a gun shows in the woods, and there's nobody around to see it, have you committed a crime?

 

[SleazyRider]

What happens in the woods stays in the woods, in my humble opinion, and I feel more comfortable there than sitting on my couch in the living room. I'm most concerned with coming across some Democrat with a cell phone who is just itchin' to call Ranger Andy to report that a gun-totin' madman with a bad attitude is one the loose. (And the way things are going in this country, that may be closer to the truth than I'd care to admit.)
Seriously, though, I could do without the hassle. I just want to lead a quiet life.

 

[lonewolf5347]

Any one know what is the ans: to this question?The n.y.c. watershed area are owned by n.y.c. now when on watershed property must you need a CCP for the city to have a pistol on you while afield?

 

[USSR]

SleazyRider,

You're getting alot of advice from people who DO NOT LIVE IN NYS, and DO NOT KNOW NYS LAW. If the area you are interested in carrying in is "administered by the NYS Department of Environmental Conservation", check with them to see if it is legal to carry a firearm in this forest land (forest land is not the same as a park in regards to firearms possession). If it is, and you have a NYS pistol permit allowing for concealed carry, then you can legally carry either open or concealed.

Don

 

[SleazyRider]

Funny you should mention that, USSR, because I called them just the other day. They must be pretty busy, as they didn't return my phone call.

There's a section of the area in question that is designated---perhaps informally---as a shooting range. It is a gravel bank of sorts, with garbage and junk strewn about, but I shoot there quite often as do dozens of others, and it has never been a problem.

I'll continue my quest to get more information, and I thank you for your response.

 

[yellowsl]

i would call the DEC and see if you can carry.I have a full carry permit in ulster county NY and my firearm has to be concealed there is no open carry in new york I cannot tell you as far as handgun hunting is concern how you can carry but for any other concealed carry only.

And as far as carrying in the water shed it is Not legal for you to carry on the property but you can drive thru i avoid the area the fish cops are just a little over over the top with the gastapo attitude.

 

[SleazyRider]

Yes, I hear you. The problem I always have with asking the authorities is that oftentimes they're not authorities at all; they're mere minions of authority and feel obligated to give you an answer, always erring on the side of caution, that is, a "no"---when they really aren't sure at all. For example, ranger Andy will simply say "no," which can't get him into any trouble; saying "yes" would put him at risk.
So I read throught the Neversink Management Plan (see it at http://www.dec.ny.gov/docs/lands_forests_pdf/neversinkump.pdf ), and can't find a prohibition, in fact, hunting is a permitted use.
So perhaps my original question should have been: In areas of New York State where firearms are permitted, is it legal to carry openly in a woodland? By the way, the person who planted this seed in my mind was my CCW instructor, who said it is certainly okay to carry openly in the woods. His statement, of course, is non-binding; as it is with a ranger or policeman---it is not their place to interpret law for you. And, of course, ignorance of the law is no excuse.
So Roscoe will stay safely concealed until I'm convinced otherwise. To tell you the truth, I think this is one of those gray areas that hasn't been heard in a court of law. And I ain't gonna be first!

 

[eye5600]

Are you asking, if a gun shows in the woods, and there's nobody around to see it, have you committed a crime?

Are you asking, if a gun shows in the woods, and there's nobody around to see it, is there reasonable doubt that you committed a crime?

 

[SleazyRider]

Way too philosophical fo' me! I'm just tryin' to make it through life a simple as possible, and keep me Irish arse out of trouble. You know, there ain't any breaks for non-football star common folks like me.

 

[wiiawiwb]

This "open carry in the woods" has me confused. Most counties in NYS will initially issue only a hunting and target pistol permit. You can try to upgrade later.

I have been told that a "hunting and target permit" will enable you, practically speaking, to carry any time in the woods. If stopped, explain to law enforcement that you are going to be target shooting/plinking. They said to always carry a paper target with you. (assumes you are carrying in areas that allow pistols to be carried)

Also, I was told that you have an unlimited ability to carry a pistol (with permit) in the woods for hunting purposes if you're hunting for red squirrels. Apparently, they can be hunted year round (no specific season) so you can be in the woods hunting red squirrels any time you want. You only need to get a small game hunting license.

For those of you familiar with NYS laws, does "target shooting" and "red squirrel hunting" give one essentially an unlimited ability to carry a pistol in the woods with only a "target and hunting permit"? (assumes you are carrying in areas that allow pistols to be carried)

 

[Siberious]

@USSR...

Read the law. NYS Penal Codes 265.00 and 400.00

New York STATE issues a license to Carry Concealed Upon Ones Person. Period. End of story. There is NO SUCH THING as OC in NY State. In some of the Upstate Counties (like those around the Finger Lakes region, and the Northern Catskill area) the local LEO's won't bother you if you're carrying open, but that is a local mindset. Try that in Sullivan, Orange, or Rockland, and your arse will be in jail faster than you can say McDonald v Chicago.

@lonewolf5347
The watershed is New York CITY land...its an extension of Manhattan and the Five Boroughs, and therefore falls under the NY City Home Rule. Pistol carriage there must be with a NYC permit along with the NYS License. The watershed includes the area's around the Neversink Lake (not the river) Roundout, Ashokan, etc.

@30 Cal Slob
The OP is talking about a land entity called a Unique Area, not a State park. The difference is that in NY State (not the CITY) a Park is an area which allows Camping, Hunting with a special permit (above and beyond your yearly backtag) Hiking, trail riding with motorized conveyances, etc., and can have private residences scattered through the State Park lands, as long as those residences remain in the families of the original owners...ie: they can be passed as inheritance, but if sold must be sold to NY State.

A Unique Area is a set aside of wilderness that is *administered* by the DEC, but *prohibits* camping, trail riding with motorized conveyanes, etc., allows for hunting with only the NYS Backtag (no special permit application is required) and the Unique Areas have no private landholders scattered within its borders.

@sleazyrider...

I live in NY, no less than 4 miles from the Neversink River Unique area, on the Rock Hill side of it (it straddles the Neversink River, and spans from Rock Hill all the way to Monticello, abuts Deer Park in Orange County, Fallsburg and South Fallsburg in Sullivan...) and I hunt there regularly with a pistol for deer during the appropriate season, and my wife, kids, and I hike the trails in the summer.

To answer your question, when you hunt during the appropriate season (pistol hunting is done during any rifle season for the likes of deer, and for other game that allows killing with a rifle, such as fox, coyote, bobcat, etc.) you must have your Carry License on your person, and your hunting license. Up until such time as you exit the vehicle, walk your trail, and get to your stand or general area where you will set a blind and wait for your prey, you must carry concealed. Once in your stand or blind, you may draw your weapon and be at the ready for your kill shot, should your intended prey appear. When you get up to move, you conceal again and go about your business.

Hiking is almost the same, the difference being that if its not hunting season, the weapon is simply for self defense, and must remain concealed until such time as you have no choice but to use deadly force to protect yourself. A black bear encounter would be such a time. You absolutely CANNOT go skipping down the trail from Katrina Falls Road, or St. Josephs, or the entrance from Wolf Lake, and have the weapon openly visible on your hip at any point in your hike.

A great resource for all rules/regs about hunting and hiking with a pistol is the couple who run the Gorge Area Sport Shop, down at the end of Katrina Falls Road. He has lived in Rock Hill all his life, and his family owned some of the land which is now part of the Neversink area. Great fellow, excellent gunsmith, and a fountain of knowledge on NY State gun laws.

Check your PM's...I sent you a link for a carry holster thats great for hiking...

Regards,

Siberious

 

[lobo9er]

you can if you are hunting.

 

[wiiawiwb]

I wouldn't have any interest in open carry. I would only be interested in carrying concealed, in a backpack, if it were legal to do so en route to target shooting or red squirrel hunting in the woods.

 

[DIM]

I see people OC around Finger Lakes region in the State Wildlife Management Areas, but I never asked if its legal or not...

 

[AlaskaMan]

Seems like one way to find out for sure would be to see what agency would be citing/arresting/pressing charges. Ask them if it's legal. If they say you cannot legally engage in that activity, ask that what statute/regulation/ordinance you would be charged under.

Then read it.

If the NYS Dept. of Environmental Conservation does not have police powers, then it would likely fall into what ever municipality/county jusisdiction that you're feet are standing in.

If you engage in an illegal activity ...involving a weapon when nobody is around to see you...then you're no different than a common criminal and a poor representative for responsible gun owners everywhere. just sayin...

While most LE types try to do their best, sometimes they get it wrong.

 

[lobo9er]

I wouldn't have any interest in open carry. I would only be interested in carrying concealed, in a backpack, if it were legal to do so en route to target shooting or red squirrel hunting in the woods.

so while hunting with a pistol its gonna be in lock down in your bag?

 

[DIM]

there is one thing you must consider when hunting with pistol in NY state, most of the counties prohibit use of riffles and pistols, so shotguns are only allowed during regular deer season, having pistol even with pistol permit might be an issue...

I just learned today law they have in NYC: person must be 21 to buy a rifle or shotgun, the reason for it they required to have riffle shotgun permit and the minimum age is 21, woow

 

[archigos]

Honestly, OC in NY is a very... discretionary... question.
There is no law that prohibits OC in NYS. (Not sure about specific local ordinances.) Unfortunately, that doesn't mean that its not considered illegal. If you carry openly in NYS and are caught, you will likely be charged with another open-ended crime such as disturbing the peace or disorderly conduct . The way that the disorderly conduct law is written in NY can effectively describe nearly any action that is not done every day by most residents.
That being said, I've seen civilians open carrying in restaurants and such on rare occasions, though I wouldn't advise that.
If you're openly carrying in the woods, you probably wouldn't have a problem unless you stumbled on or were responded to by a bad cop. How much is that risk worth to you?