New York open carry in woods?

[Greg Koziol]

New york state and new york city has the stupidest gun laws.
they should just make ONE LICENSE FOR THE WHOLE STATE, not by a county by county or new york city non-new york city basis. SO STUPID. I have a license for putnam county, i'm north of westchester an hour north of you.

 

[trickyasafox]

interesting. I hunt on private land, so as long as I have a permit and my hunting tag its a bit of a moot point for me- however it is very worthwhile to get something authoritative on this.

I suspect siberius is correct.

now the question is, what counts as concealed? I carry an encore in a bandoleer holster which conceals the entire gun. I wonder if, even though none of the gun is exposed, if that could still create an issue.

 

[Siberious]

now the question is, what counts as concealed?

I don't remember the actual penal code section, but it is codified...I'll look it up and post it tomorrow sometime.

Basically, the wording is that *concealed* means hiding the weapon in such manner as to not alarm the general public, where said public can, with casual observation, discern that a weapon is being hidden.

In other words, if you're printing a bit, it *could* be a gun, or it *could* be a cell phone, or it *could* be your diabetic med kit, or it *could* be...you get the idea.

That being said, most State Troopers that I know personally say that as long as you make an effort to conceal, and your shirt blows open and someone catches a glimpse of a gun, thats OK.

As far as restriction to where you can and cannot pistol hunt, the New York DEC publishes the Hunting and Fishing guidelines each year. In the booklet, there is a map of New York, divided into county boundaries. 95% of the zones that allow rifle, will also allow pistol. The link to the DEC Hunting guide is http://www.dec.ny.gov/docs/wildlife_pdf/09hunttrap.pdf

Go to page 22, bottom right corner is a map of where you can and cannot hunt with a pistol. Yellow and white area's are pistol-friendly, blue and black are not. You can see by the map that almost 98% of all the land that is New York State is pistol-friendly.

Also, bottom of page 20, right hand corner...we have a wild pig problem in NY. Anyone with a small game license, resident or non-resident (non-res CANNOT pistol hunt) can hunt wild boar all year around, with no bag limit.

Siberious

 

[lobo9er]

there is one thing you must consider when hunting with pistol in NY state, most of the counties prohibit use of riffles and pistols,

not really In fact I believe its actually the opposite most allow pistol and alot of areas rifles are legal too.

 

[DIM]

Looking at the map on page 22 I see more counties now allow to hunt with rifles, but there are still few remained... About wild pigs, where exactly are they? I spend good portion of time out, but I never seen any signs of pig infestation on NYS land... I know in PA, Tioga County they got private hunting grounds where wild russian boars were introduced and somehow they got out, that's like 80 miles away from me and still no signs that pigs are here, I guess hunters on the border doing great job by not letting them through

 

[wiiawiwb]

Page 40 of the Encon Hunting Guide, that Siberious kindly linked to, provides that red squirrels can be hunted year round. A semi-automatic pistol (whose barrel length is <8") can be used to hunt red squirrel, even one with a 10-round cartridge.

If memory serves me, the Northern region does not require that a small-game license hunter display his license as one would display a deer tag on the back.

So, I can not imagine why someone could not carry a semi-automatic pistol(I would carry concealed in a backpack) year round in the woods in NYS providing the area legally allows hunting and you have your small-game license and pistol permit with you.

Am I wrong?

 

[Siberious]

If memory serves me, the Northern region does not require that a small-game license hunter display his license as one would display a deer tag on the back.

So, I can not imagine why someone could not carry a semi-automatic pistol(I would carry concealed in a backpack) year round in the woods in NYS providing the area legally allows hunting and you have your small-game license and pistol permit with you.

Am I wrong?

Yup, you are, on one count...

NYS DEC (which has jurisdiction over hunting licenses, rules, regs, etc.) requires that any hunter/fisher/trapper have their backtag (the hunting/fishing/trapping license) prominently displayed on their back. Any time you are hunting, you MUST display it, even for small game. Its not the deer tag that you are displaying, it is your hunting license, and the number issued to you for that season.

The fine for not displaying it is around $250. For not having it on your person at all is higher, and hunting without having pulled a license at all for the season carries poaching fines along with other fines, and up to 30 days jail time.

But, that is slightly off topic...we now return you to your regularly scheduled bboard thread....

Siberious

 

[wiiawiwb]

Siberious,

The rules are so complicated and so many. When I called DEC they told me that for small game nothing had to be displayed in the Northern zone.

Here is from DEC's regulations at their website:

"Question: Will I get a ticket for carrying my license/tags in the holder on my back?
Answer: The Environmental Conservation Law requires hunters outside of the Northern Zone and the Catskill Park to display the numbered back tag in the middle of their back. However, carrying your license or carcass tags in the back tag holder is not recommended because a significant number of licenses and carcass tags are lost each year along with the back tag holder. For that reason, the DEC strongly recommends that licenses and carcass tags be carried in secure interior pockets, safe from loss."

http://www.dec.ny.gov/regulations/2442.html

Based upon the highlighted above it would seem to indicate to me that nothing needs to be prominently displayed in the Northern zone.

If I live to be 100 years old I'll never understand all the pistol, rifle and hunting laws in NYS.

 

[DIM]

not so sure about OC in the woods now here what the law looks like :

Section 1. Paragraphs b and c of subdivision 4 of section 11-0901 of
the environmental conservation law, as amended by chapter 600 of the
laws of 1993, subparagraph 5 of paragraph b and subparagraph 5 of para-
graph c as amended by chapter 430 of the laws of 2000, are amended to read as follows:
b. No person shall hunt deer:
(1) with the aid of a dog, or aircraft of any kind; or
(2) with the aid of a jacklight, spotlight, headlight or other type of
artificial light; or
(3) with a pistol, revolver or rifle using rim-fire ammunition; or
(4) with a shotgun of less than twenty gauge or loaded with shells
other than shells each carrying a single round ball or a single slug,
loaded with shells each carrying a single round ball or a single slug,
shall not be prohibited so long as only shells having a non-metallic
case, except for the base, are used; or
(5) with [a bow other than] a long bow with a draw weight [in excess]
of LESS THAN thirty-five pounds;

http://assembly.state.ny.us/leg/?default_fld= &bn=s6793 &Summary=Y&Text=Y

 

[DIM]

I guess center fired pistols are OK

 

[wiiawiwb]

I don't see how it is ever allowable to open carry a handgun in NYS other than specialty groups of people such as law enforcement, security, etc. These categories are outlined in NY Penal Code 400.00(2)(a)-(e).

Everyone else is issued a pistol permit/license pursuant to NY Penal Code 400.0(2)(f) which states, "have and carry concealed, without regard to employment or place of possession, by any person when proper cause exists for the issuance thereof;"

I don't see any exemptions listed to open carry for hunting, target or any other purpose other than those specified in (a)-(e).

If I'm wrong kindly correct me.

The law referenced above can be found on page 8 of the linked laws:

http://www.atf.gov/publications/download/p/atf-p-5300-5/atf-p-5300-5-new_york.pdf

I'm not a lawyer and don't claim to know the laws nor offer any advice thereon.

 

[Al LaVodka]

Of course u can "open carry" when hunting. In fact, NYC used to issue a special slip stapled to their licenses for people who got a target license and claimed to hunt to make it clear they were allowed to be in posession of a loaded gun afield when legally engaged in hunting (so handgun hunting has to be permitted in the area one is in ostensibly).
Al

 

[wiiawiwb]

I'm not familiar with NYC laws, and never go there, so I can not speak about any of those laws.

Common sense would say that you should be able to open carry in NYS while you hunt but I can find nothing in the law that allows for that. The statutes in NYS, as I read them only say "have and concealed carry".

The fundamental premise is that it is illegal to possess any handgun in NYS unless allowed by law (Section 265.01). You may only possess a handgun because Section 400.00(2)(f) allows you to do so and it only provides "have and concealed carry". Were it not for Section 265.01 then you could open carry. However, it exists in the law and I don't know how you get around it.

That's not to say that the local DEC officer, sheriff or trooper will bother anyone who is open carrying during hunting season. However, if taken to task and arrested for open carrying while hunting, I would love to know what regulation/statute/law you'd use in your defense.

Can anyone direct me me to the actual statute or regulation that would allow for OC while hunting?