Newbie BP cleaning questions

[Legionnaire]

I've owned a pair of Uberti 2nd Model Dragoons for several years, and finally took one to the range today. What a hoot! Sorry I put it off for so long. I'm afraid I'm hooked. I was shooting .454 caliber Hornady balls over Goex FFFg with a lubed wad between the powder and ball. CCI #10 caps worked well ... no misfires. So a couple of questions...

What do you use at the range to knock off fouling? After 24 rounds of varying loads from 30 to 45 grains of Goex, the barrel looked pretty nasty, and it felt like the cylinder was beginning to bind a bit. Is there some recommended way to do a quick-and-dirty cleaning while still at the range?

How far do you break your Colt repros down for routine cleaning? I did a complete takedown when I got home today, including pulling the nipples. Is this recommended every time out?

Lastly, what are you all using for lubricant?

 

[Busyhands94]

you can use Crisco as the lubricant, it will not only keep the bore clean but will prevent chain fires.you could run a patch down the bore every couple cylinders if you want to cut down on fouling even further. also, from what i have heard Goex is not clean burning. i think Triple se7en might do better. good luck!
~Levi

 

[Bluehawk]

At the range I just use a water dampened nylon bristle bore brush down the barrel followed by a few damp patches and a few dry ones...same for the cylinders and the arbor hole in the cylinder. For the cylinder arbor, a water dampened rag...maybe a nylon toothbrush for stubborn spots...followed by a dry rag and a very light film of lithium grease (on the arbor) then back together it goes for more shooting.

Yes...as far as I'm concerned...a complete takedown is necessary for a good cleaning once you get home.

 

[mykeal]

Plain water at the range - just a dampened patch or rag is sufficient like Bluehawk said. I take a small squeeze bottle of water and use cleaning patches.

Lubed wads under the ball or grease in the chamber mouths greatly reduce the amount of fouling you have to contend with. You really need very little, so a wad that's nearly dry works just fine and is much, much less mess than grease in the chamber mouth.

I've not found it necessary to do a complete tear down after every session. I clean the bore and chambers, of course, but I only remove the nipples and action parts every three to five times on guns I use regularly. Other guns that are used less often do get a complete tear down each time because it might be a few months before they're used again. All my guns get at least a semi-annual complete tear down, cleaning and inspection even if they're not used.

 

[Foto Joe]

Everybody has their own little "Tricks of the Trade". Some adhere strictly to historical methods, others use modern lubricants like lithium based grease. Feel free to try various methods and settle on the one that works for you. About the only thing that you will find we all pretty much agree with is to stay away from petroleum based lubricants.

My personal preference is to carry a small sewing machine/machine gun oiler and a small can of Crisco with me. The oiler has Ballistol in it and if I feel the cylinder getting tight, I simply put a few drops of Ballistol on the arbor between the cylinder and barrel and a couple of drops behind the cylinder as close to the arbor as I can get. Then go to half-cock and spin the cylinder a few times to let the Ballisol work into the arbor. No disassembly required in the field. This is usually only necessary on cartridge guns, on the front stuffers I do use a small dollop of Crisco on the chamber mouths just for lubrication. The Crisco keeps the barrel fouling nice and soft and also lubes the arbor enough that I seldom use the Ballistol on the arbor in the field.

The only reason I use the Crisco is because I'm cheap, not thrifty or frugal, just cheap. Also, I don't live in an area where warm temperatures are a problem. You will find various recipes on this forum for making your own goop using olive oil, Crisco, beeswax etc., they all work.

I also personally endorse removing the nipples at bath time, not everybody does. I figure that I have enough time to spend the extra five minutes cleaning them. Before putting them back in the cylinder I put a drop of Ballistol on the threads. Remember, the nipples WILL NOT fall out. There is no need to use a cheater bar to tighten them.

 

[mr16ga]

I use Hoppe's 9 Plus at the range. Hot water and real soap at home with every thing taken apart. and oven dry on warm for 30 min. for pistols. then reassemble. Leave wood parts out of the oven.

 

[Legionnaire]

Thanks much for the prompt replies. I'm good on the home disassembly ... really like the way the Colts come apart. I took mine all the way down, nipples and everything, for a good hot, soapy bath on my return home.

Really appreciate the tips on "at the range" cleaning. I'll pick up a couple of dedicated nylon brushes and a spray bottle for some water. What do you think about a squirt of dish soap in the water bottle?

 

[mykeal]

You don't need soap either at home or at the range. I know lots of people like to use it, but it really adds nothing to the job. Black powder fouling is fully soluble in plain water.

Actually, on reflection, soap does add something: it must be rinsed away with plain water, so it forces you to fully rinse the parts clean. I guess that's an advantage.

 

[tpelle]

I've taken to just using plain ol' warm water for cleaning. I then use Ballistol to lubricate all of the small internal parts and run a Ballistol-soaked patch down the bore and in the chambers for storage, and I use Crisco as a lube for the cylinder arbor and to wipe down the externals.

At the range, if the gun gets really gucked up, I break it down and wipe it down with a rag soaked in "Moose Milk", which is a mixture of Ballistol and water. I carry that in an old Windex spray bottle. Also, when done shooting, I just spray the whole gun with it to keep the fouling soft until I get it home to clean it.

If you use anything in the chambers and intend to continue shooting, make sure you pop a cap or two on each chamber to clean it out before you load. I had a case of brain fade last week and forgot to do that, and ended up with six chambers full of contaminated powder that wouldn't fire. I had to un-cap and haul the cylinder home, then remove the nipples and dig out the powder, then drive the ball out with a rod through the nipple hole.

 

[Legionnaire]

Black powder fouling is fully soluble in plain water.

Good to know; thanks. Guess I'll pass on the soap. Just have to find some Ballistol; LGS doesn't stock it.

 

[arcticap]

Black powder fouling is fully soluble in plain water.

I do not believe that black powder fouling is fully soluble in plain water. Carbon is not water soluble, nor is charcoal. And sulfur is also practically insoluble in water if there is any present.* Water combined with the physical process of washing and scrubbing it off does help to remove some of it. But that doesn't mean that all of the black powder residue is completely water soluble as asserted.

Blackpowder is a comparatively inefficient powder. One gram of blackpowder gives you 718 calories of heat, 270 cubic centimeters of gas, and about half of a gram of residue. Upon ignition the sulfur burns, producing hydrogen sulfide, and the saltpeter decomposes, releasing free oxygen molecules, sustaining combustion, and combining with the carbon of the charcoal to form carbon dioxide and carbon monoxide. Heat energy is released as the gas expands. Sulfur will vaporize at 832.28º F. The principal gases formed are carbon dioxide, carbon monoxide, and nitrogen. About one third of the gas created is nitrogen. The solid products are potassium carbonate, potassium sulfate, and potassium mono- and higher sulfides, and carbon. The white smoke and fouling of blackpowder comprise the solids that are produced upon combustion. In one test, 82 grains by weight left 42 grains of solid residue. It should come as no surprise that about half of the fouling produced by blackpowder is typically left in a front-loader's barrel.

Blackpowder residue consists of potassium carbonate, potassium sulfate, potassium sulfide, potassium thiosulfate, potassium thiocynate, carbon, and sulfur. All the potassium compounds are salts, considered corrosive. The sulfides in the emissions create the nostril flaring rotten egg smell we all disdain.

http://www.chuckhawks.com/blackpowder_pyrodex.htm

*http://pmep.cce.cornell.edu/profiles/extoxnet/pyrethrins-ziram/sulfur-ext.html

 

[mykeal]

Chuck Hawks is the authority that gave Randy Wakeman his pulpit; at first glance anything referenced to him is suspect.

However, in this context I believe he's accurate. I agree that 'soluble' isn't technically correct and I'll change it to miscible. The point is that soap doesn't lend anything to the cleaning process; it doesn't make the elemental carbon and sulfur any more soluble.

 

[GENTLEMAN OF THE CHARCOAL]

My personal opinion; as stated before on here many times by me over the last several years..I do NOT want any water (H2o) anywhere close to one of my guns and the only way any water is getting close to one of my guns is if I'm caught in the rain, I sweat on it, I fall in some river or creek, or if I am drunk and urinate on it accidentally....

 

[Pancho]

Although I strictly use Ballistol/H2O and straight Ballistol to clean and lubricate my firearms I'm not opposed to using a "detergent" such as dawn as a cleaning aide.
The surfactants in detergents perform three functions, emulsify greases, suspend insolubles and most importantly reduce the surface tension of water in effect making water wetter. All three of these functions serve to assist in cleaning bp residue.

 

[Pancho]

On a related subject, I've done some light research into the composition of Ballistol and the only information I can find is that it is primarily mineral oil but there are other important ingredients that are still a mystery to me.
Does anyone know what is in Ballistol.

 

[arcticap]

From the Ballistol material safety data sheet (msds):

ballistol contains medicinal grade mineral oil, alkaline salts of oleic acid, several alcohols, benzyl acetate and an oil from
vegetal seeds. The mineral oil is unchlorinated and conforms to the specifications of us pharmacopeia xx.

http://www.baileysonline.com/msds_sheets/pdfs/ballistol.pdf

ingredients

(according to a specification from december 2002)
pharmaceutical white oil: Cas rn 8042-47-5
oleic acid: Cas rn 112-80-1
c-5 alcohols: Cas rn 78-83-1; cas rn 137-32-6; cas rn 100-51-6
different essential oils to perfume ballistol

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ballistol

 

[Foto Joe]

Thanks to arcticap for posting the link to the MSDS for Ballistol. Given that I've been called both eccentric and anal, I had to read the entire thing. Very interesting.

One of my main reasons for using Ballistol is that it is supposed to be "non-toxic". I've had enough exposure to chemicals in my life that I don't really need any more things that can cause cancer in California in my body.

I have quoted the section on Corrosion Inhibition below. I highly recommend folks to read the entire MSDS even if you aren't eccentric.

Ballistol as a Corrosion Inhibitor
Most corrosion inhibiting lubricants can only protect against normal oxidation. They do so by covering up the surface, which they are supposed to protect, and prevent contact with water and air. Due to its alkalinity Ballistol can also protect against galvanic corrrosion, acidic corrosion and salt water corrosion. Ballistol contains oxygen binders. They make the oxygen, contained in water or air, unavailable for oxidation. Due to its low surface tension, Ballistol is capable of creeping into the smallest openings even against gravity. Accordingly, Ballistol provides not only passive but also active protection against corrosion. However, Ballistol is not a permanent coating or paint. Its protective effect will be the stronger the more often it is re-applied.

 

[Phantom Captain]

Ballistol is the ONLY oil I use on all my BP guns. It's great stuff.

Water is the only thing I use to clean all my BP guns. Between the water and Ballistol, even after thousands and thousand of rounds and pound after pound of powder throughout my life, all of my guns look basically new and in great shape.

Don't be scared off by GOCs comment about water. It's the BEST thing for removing BP fouling and if using Ballistol after you won't have a hitch.

I can clean a dirty muzzleloader rifle in about 15 minutes using water and Ballistol, nothing to it. Pistols take a bit longer but I simply take em apart and put em in the sink. My Conversion pistol is the easiest of all to clean since it's an open top, barrel and cylinder in the sink, dry and Ballistol. Literally ten minutes tops.

I've read somewhere before, can't remember where now offhand, that Civil War officers would clean their dirty pistols by going down to the closest creek or river, submerging their gun, swishing it around a bit, then drying and oiling and that was it.

I even use water on my WWII surplus collection when firing corrosive ammo. A couple of wet patches down the bore and wiping the bolts with wet towels and voila! Never had any corrosion or rust problems with any of them using this method. I use Ballistol on my WWII stuff too.

 

[tpelle]

Thanks to arcticap for posting the link to the MSDS for Ballistol. Given that I've been called both eccentric and anal, I had to read the entire thing. Very interesting.

One of my main reasons for using Ballistol is that it is supposed to be "non-toxic". I've had enough exposure to chemicals in my life that I don't really need any more things that can cause cancer in California in my body.

I have quoted the section on Corrosion Inhibition below. I highly recommend folks to read the entire MSDS even if you aren't eccentric.

The walk-thru gate at my apartment complex at my temporary residence in California has a warning label on it that the apartment complex was constructed with materials known to cause cancer in California.

I read that the Republic of California knows that the sun causes cancer, but since they can't figure out how to put a warning label on the sun, the whole state is living in denial.

 

[Mike 56]

I make grease cookies i use them instead of wads. I don 't have to clean or lube anything until i get home. If you have enough lube between your powder and balls your barrel will stay clean and it will keep your gun well lubed.