Newbie die question!

[andym79]

Hi, guys I will be looking to reload .30-30 for lever action competition. The rounds will be loaded to between 1400 - 1500 fps!

I will be getting some reloading equipment and need to sort out what dies to get. At this stage I will be loading 165gr cast lead bullets and they will all be used in the same rifle!

I will be using the dies in a Lee 4 hole turret press!

I was thinking of laying the dies up like this
Stage 1: Collet Die which sizes the neck and deprimes! (priming done with hand tool)
Stage 2: UNIVERSAL EXPANDING DIE to flare the neck for a cast bullet!
Stage 3: Dead Length Bullet Seating Die to seat projectile!
Stage 4: Factory crimp die (So projectile don't get seated to deep in tubular magazine!

so I was going to buy:

Lee Deluxe rifle die set including:
Full Length Sizing Die (for when I need to resize or if I get another .30-30)
Collet Die which sizes the neck
Dead Length Bullet Seating Die

A universal expanding die (would a Lyman .30 M be better?) and

A factory crimp die.

Am I on the right lines here of completely wrong?

 

[Michael R.]

It looks like you are correct! That looks right to me. Hopefully someone else will chime in soon.

 

[rcmodel]

For any sort of lever-action competition?
110% reliable functioning is 110% more important then brass life.

FL size every case that goes in a lever-action, and crimp it using a Lee FCD.

Neck-sized brass will be more difficult to chamber and slow you down considerably.

If your rifles chamber is not perfect, and the bolt face square with the chamber?
They will not even go back in, and if they do, you can't get them back out without shooting them first.

The collet die is very dependent on the case neck thickness being exactly the same.
30-30 brass from the various manufactures have more variations in length & thickness then Lady Gaga's costumes.

Don't even think about neck sizing for a lever-gun.

That's my story and I'm sticking too it.
rc

 

[andym79]

My main motive was to extend brass life!

So keep neck sizing only for bolt action?

 

[rcmodel]

Neck sizing is fine & dandy for a bolt-action.
Because most of them have very powerful cam power to force a tight case in the chamber, resizing it slightly if necessary, and pulling it back out kicking & screaming.

Levers, pumps,and semi-autos don't have much of anything like that.
For the most part, if a case won't go in a lever-gun easily, it is stuck.
And it won't come back out if it is stuck.
So you are stuck.

As I said before, 110% function is far more important then case life in a lever-action.
Case life ain't gonna be all that great anyway due to the rear locking springy action all of them have.

rc

 

[KansasPaul]

I agree with rc on this - I would only FL size your brass. I've been down the road with neck sizing for an auto-loader and I experienced some feeding issues, there's no way I would trust fire formed brass reloads for a lever gun.

Blessings

Paul

 

[res7s]

You can extend 30-30 brass life a good bit by annealing the case necks. I've never had a 30-30 case fail anywhere but the neck. The 30-30 case has a thin neck and I believe it becomes work hardened quicker because of this.

Now that I've jinxed myself I expect to have some type of case separation.

 

[rcmodel]

You can also extend 30-30 or other lever-action caliber case life a great deal by adjusting the FL sizing die to headspace off the shoulder instead of the rim.

Just be sure it chambers easily with no resistance in a lever gun.

If you push the shoulder back to spec and headspace of the rim, case life will be much shorter because it will stretch much more every time it is fired..

rc

 

[Bmac1949]

In other words you don't need to spend the extra money for the three die set. RC can you give me an idea of what you consider the life of a .30-30 case? I've got some that have been fired at least 8 times, I'd have to check my log to know exactly, and see no sign of failure. Since it's a low pressure round I didn't think it would be as much of a factor as it would be in a high pressure cartridge.

 

[popper]

You are planning to shoot competition cast but didn't indicate what the rifle is. Check out cast bullet website for best suggestions. You may want to go to the M- 31 to get proper neck size and tension for cast - they are NOT .308.

 

[rcmodel]

RC can you give me an idea of what you consider the life of a .30-30 case?

No, not really.

A lot of 30-30 lever-guns have excess headspace.
All 30-30 lever guns have rear locking bolts and more "spring" in the action then a front locking bolt.

A lot of factory loads & handloads are loaded to low enough pressure you will see the primers all backed out of the fired cases due to the headspace issue.

Those cases will last a very long time, because they are not stretching when they are fired.

But if loaded to full pressure, they will stretch every time they are fired, the primers will be reseated flush, and they won't last very long at all.

So, it all depends on the guns headspace, and how hot they are loaded.

rc

 

[gamestalker]

My brother in law loaded for his new Win. 94 years ago and if memory serves me right, he was getting between 8-10 reloadings from his standard factory brass. I do recall his loads were rather warm and he always used slower burning powder for that cartridge too, if that helps any.

But as RC said, head space and other action characteristics are going to be at play here as well and will influence the number of cycles your brass will last for. Just watch for obvious signs of case failure in it's initial stages, and you'll do just fine. To date all of my bottle neck brass has failed just above the head. But primer pockets and necks are also just as important to keep an eye one in this respect.

 

[Hummer70]

I would get a Lyman 311410 mold (170 gr.) designed for 30-30 tube loaders. Also 4759 propellant. good combo.

 

[popper]

I set mine at .009 over gauge length for my 336. Over 10 loadings for this batch and no signs of failure. Most of my neck failure were in a bag of once-fired I bought. Now I just get used. You can call Lyman at Please call 800-225-9626 to get the correct M die, there are options for the plug size. You might want the neck-sizer. If you pull the ball out of a F/L and size the brass, you will probably find it reduces the neck diam. quite a bit before expanding. You can hone the F/L die larger or just reduce it with the N/S and then use the M die. Check LASC and cast bullets.