30-30 Do I need an expander die?

[webrx]

Hi again,
First time loading 30-30, have some hornady interlock bullets in 150gr.

I purchased a Lee four die set for my 30-30 Marlin (lever action), and it come with a full length sizer die and a neck sizing die, as well as the seating die and FCD.

There is no powder through expanding die like there is in a pistol 4 die set.

I reload on a single stage, so it is not a convenience thing,

I went ahead and built a "dummy" round and it does not look like it scraped anything off, and all looks ok I just had to hold the bullet on the case until it fed into the die.

So, questions:

Did I mess up and buy the wrong set for 30-30? i.e. should I have gotten one with an expander die?

Do you not normally need/get an expander die with Rifle calibers?

and last, should I purchase a universal expander as I will be reloading 223, 243, and 270 eventually?

Thanks in advance for you wisdom and advice.

Dave

 

[jwrowland77]

That's because you don't expand the necks on rifle brass like you do pistol.

There's only one time you might need to expand the neck a tad on a .30-30 round, and that would be if you're using cast boolits.

I'll let you know how that goes, I plan to start loading cast boolits in my .30-30 for hunting and general plinking.

 

[243winxb]

Do you not normally need/get an expander die with Rifle calibers?

Standard 2 die sets like RCBS have an expander in the full length die. The 2nd die seats the bullet and crimps. A 2 die set works well for a jacketed bullet. If loading a cast bullet, a Lyman M die is needed. Look into your Lee die. Do you see an expander?

 

[ArchAngelCD]

Like already said, you won't need to expand the neck with jacketed bullets on any rifle brass. Even with cast bullets you can sometimes get away without flaring the mouth if the bullet allows. I bought an inexpensive universal expander did from Lee I use on my 30-30 sometimes. It works well enough especially for the low price.

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/140461/lee-universal-neck-expanding-die

 

[webrx]

Thanks,

Appreciate the input

I will look in the sizing die when I get a minute to see if there is an expander in there.

Adjustment on the instructions said adjust until the die touches the shell holder and then another 1/3 to 1/4 - I did this.

I also read that I should make sure there is no daylight between the die and holder when sizing the casing - I will double check this as well as I assume this is to allow the expander 243xb references to slightly bell the mouth.

Live and learn.

Thanks again.

d

 

[Salmoneye]

Us cheap people that load cast sometimes use a couple of twists with a pair of needle-nose pliers to 'flare' cases...

Just enough to start the boolit without shaving...

 

[steve4102]

Expand, No, Chamfer, YES.

What manuals do you have?

 

[TimSr]

I assume this is to allow the expander 243xb references to slightly bell the mouth.

Rifle case mouths are not normally "belled" like pistol cases. The "expander ball" passes all the way through the case neck. There is no adjustment for expansion. It will expand to the size of the expander ball. On RCBS 2 die sets, this expander ball is on the shaft with the depriming pin which is inside the resizing die. As 243winxb said, the 2nd die seats and optionally crimps. This is all you need for loading jacketed bullets.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

webrx, you are worrying about something for nothing. There is no reason to flare the mouth of bottle neck rifle brass, it just isn't done. Just like there is no good reason to crimp rifle cases unless being used in a tubular magazine like the Marlin levergun. You will only shorten the brass life with no benefit.

 

[theleo]

Unless you are shaving your bullets I wouldn't worry about it all that much. The only reason I'd do it is to make sure the bullet is seating squarely. It takes the error of my sausage fingers out of the equation when seating the bullet.

 

[Bullseye]

When I load rifle bottlenecked cartridges on a single stage press, I keep hold of the bullet with my fingers as I raise the cartridge until the bullet is started up in the die. The die holds it in place and it seats nicely. If it doesn't feel right, the bullet has tilted some so before forcing it, I drop it back down and try again.

With straight wall cases in pistol, I do have to flare them, but the bullet will usually sit on top of the flared opening or set down in a tad where I don't have to hold the bullet. I have to flare my .405 and 45-70 cases for rifle since they are straight walled cases.
Flaring a case too much will give you problems with the case not fitting into the seating die.

 

[243winxb]

EXPANDER PLUG 1. A cylindrical plug of proper diameter that is inserted into the neck of a resized cartridge case to expand the diameter to its proper size. Also called Ball Sizing Plug.

No bell or flare needed for 30-30 when seating a jacketed bullet. Only needs expanded. Photo of RCBS expander stem.

 

[webrx]

Thanks again all,

Steve4102 - I do have access to few manuals, lyman 48, Lyman Cast, IMR handloaders guide, and of course the Hogden and alliant online manuals.

ArchangelCD - I am still new so worry a little when I start a new caliber, I appreciate the patience and knowledge you share.

243winxb - it looks like the stem of the full length sizing die has a tapered shaft so I assume that is the expander. I loosed and reset the step to flush as described in the instructions, but, it seems that it wants to setup about 1.16 of an inch above flush as it bottoms out on the primer pocket if flush, at least that is what it feels like - I snugged it up pretty good and it continues to move up that little bit on the first resize.

Thanks to all others who responded as well.

Much appreciated experience and advice

Dave

 

[PapaG]

I have loaded lots of cast bullets in 30 cal, 30-30, 308, 30-06 and used the expander ball in a 7.7 Jap sizing die to get the necks big enough to take the 309 to .311 bullets without shaving.
Finally bought the bullet, ha, ha, and got two dies for expanding, a Lyman M and a Lee do it all expanding die. both work great.
Accuracy greatly improved with unshaved bullets.

 

[webrx]

Just loaded up 20, the needle nose trick worked, did not take much effort either.

As I said above, I was able to load without expanding, but had to hold the bullet on the casing. That worked too

Now I have two ways to do this

Thanks all.

d