Newbie needs shotgun advice

[ahriman]

The wife and I are putting together a sh*t-hits-the-fan kit, including a 12 gauge shotgun as my long gun

I'm looking for a shotgun that fits as many of the following criteria as possible:

Certainties:
1: semi-automatic (nearly mandatory)
2: automatically adjust to different shell lengths:
2.1: up to 3" magnum
2.2: up to 3.5" super-magnum
3: a pistol grip/shoulder stock
4: kick isn't a big issue (I'm 6'6" and... meaty) but lower weight would be nice
in case we need to evacuate

Uncertainties:
I'm unsure whether smoothbore or rifled is better. Most of what I'll be doing will be home defense/urban zombie fighting. I figure smoothbore with buckshot and slugs should be more then sufficient, but will I one day miss being able to shoot a sabot in a long range shot?

Restrictions:
I live in California, near Los Angeles. ;-(

So far, the gun I've found that fits these criteria the best is the Benelli Super Black Eagle II, but that's some expensive shotgun! Any advice of other models to look at would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks!

 

[makorunner013]

Remington, my dear boy. Remington...

Remington 870. Used by most Police Departments. They only cost around $300.00 bucks and there are a ton of add on's to make the gun a true Street Sweeper. Your options are endless without spending a fortune........

 

[ahriman]

sigh... I guess to save that much coin, I can learn to work a pump properly...

 

[kBob]

I recommend a good class in the use of a "tactical' (hate that word) shotgun, such as Moragan Consulting or Gun Site or someone other than Joe Bozo's Backyard Commando School.

As above a good used pump 870 will do a lot more than you think.

It ain't the gun that makes a difference, but the person using it. Pistol grips and semi auto action will not make up for a lack of actual abilities and skill.

-kBob

 

[ahriman]

I recommend a good class in the use of a "tactical' (hate that word) shotgun

It's one thing my wife and I are firm on, we don't buy a weapon til we've got an idea how the hell to use it properly.

It ain't the gun that makes a difference, but the person using it. Pistol grips and semi auto action will not make up for a lack of actual abilities and skill.

agreed. I just like the feel of pistol grips, especially since we'll almost certainly get a slightly shorter stock on the weapon for my wife, and I dislike overly short rifle-only grips.

I've never been one to replace practice with gear, I just like gear. ;-)

 

[RatDrall]

Why a 3.5" chamber?

 

[Russ Jackson]

Saiga 12 ....Nothing more needs to be said...Russ

 

[Virginian]

I have nothing that is even remotely close to tactical, and never will, but I will still council you to steer clear of the 3.5" chamber option. You don't need it at all in a home defense or tactical scenario, and most weapons designed to take it cost beaucoup more dollars to buy and shoot, and are not as reliable with light practice or field ammo. Also you don't need a rifled barrel. You should be able to get out to 100 yards with a smoothbore if you experiment around and find the best slug for your gun, and rifled eliminates a whole lot of other projectile options.

 

[hammerklavier]

1. If you want an autoloader, then you'll have to spend the money (unless you want some cheap unreliable autoloader. The Saiga might be an exception, but you live in CA, so that's out).

2. Larger shells buy you very little in close range stopping power. This is a fact. Larger shells were made for long range duck and goose hunters, not for tactical situations. (The fact that 3 and 3.5 inch shells are sold loaded with buckshot is more marketing that filling any real need.)

3. You don't need a rifled barrel to fire slugs, get the smoothbore.

 

[philpost]

Remington 870. Used by most Police Departments. They only cost around $300.00 bucks and there are a ton of add on's to make the gun a true Street Sweeper. Your options are endless without spending a fortune........

I would second this, only adding: make it a Wingmaster 870 or a LE 870. I have both a '51 Wingmaster and a recent Express, and not only was the used Wingmaster half the price ($175), but the fit and finish are MUCH better. The LE models are also made to a higher standard.

 

[ahriman]

Why a 3.5" chamber?

um... in case I need to punch through a car door at 100 yards? ;-)
Just for versatility's sake. I'd hate to find a really cool ammo type that I can't fire because it doesn't fit. On the other hand, it may be superfluous, and I'll likely go with something that can handle up to 3" loads.

I will still council you to steer clear of the 3.5" chamber option... Also you don't need a rifled barrel

Noted, thanks for the advice.

The Saiga might be an exception, but you live in CA, so that's out).

Even with a "bullet button" or some such, I'm sure the CADOJ will at some point simply declare it illegal and seize it.

2. The fact that 3 and 3.5 inch shells are sold loaded with buckshot is more marketing that filling any real need.p

Interesting...

I would second this, only adding: make it a Wingmaster 870 or a LE 870. I have both a '51 Wingmaster and a recent Express, and not only was the used Wingmaster half the price ($175), but the fit and finish are MUCH better. The LE models are also made to a higher standard.

Duly noted.

 

[Mac's Precision]

You simply don't need a 3.5 inch chamber. 3 inch is fine.

As for needing to punch a car door at 100 yards. I can't imagine WHY you would need to...BUT if you think you might there are LOTS of good slugs that will do that. NEVER...NEVER underestimate the power of a good slug. There are sabot slugs that will amaze you.

Stick to the 870. Buy a basic model with a 20 inch barrel and open sights attached. IF you want a pistol grip butt stock you can screw one on.

I have a mid 80's Wingmaster magnum with the 20 inch deer sighted barrel and factory wood stocks. It has an extended mag tube and a sling. I promise you...it will solve EVERY problem you will ever encounter. Further you do NOT want to be anywhere inside 100 yards of that gun. I bought the gun from a local pawn shop with a 30" barrel attached. It WAS a duck gun. I swapped barrels and added the mag tube. It is NOW a pump action death stick. The gun cost me $140.

Cheers
Mac.

 

[ahriman]

I can't imagine WHY you would need to...

I can IMAGINE why... but it usually involves a bald guy in a metal hockey mask telling me to "just walk away" from my fuel production facility. In reality, I may never need to, but having the option is nice.

There are sabot slugs that will amaze you.

can you fire sabot from a smoothbore shotgun?


Thanks for the advice, all...

 

[Black Knight]

With your criteria I would look at the Benelli M3 Convertable. It is a semi-auto that can be switched to pump just by pushing a button. The biggest problem with it is the cost. Benelli lists it at whopping $1549. Add a Knoxx stock to it and you are covered. You won't have much money left for ammo but you'll have a fine tactical shotgun. Believe it or not most will find the Remington 870 in whatever configuration you want or the Mossberg 500 series pump action shotguns to be more than adequate. Being a police officer, at work we have the Mossberg. At home I have a Remington 870 Wingmaster with a 20" barrel and rifle sights at the ready. I also have an older Winchester 1200 set up as a tactical gun (pistol grip shoulder stock from Speedfeed) as a backup if necessary. Both the Remington and Winchester cost me about half what the Benelli would have, thus more money for ammo. If you absolutely must have a semi-auto look at the Remington 1100P police shotgun at www.remingtonle.com.

 

[262runner]

Mac,

That "DEATH STICK" comment made me laugh, never heard it before, I will use it though.

Ed

 

[ahriman]

Looking through old threads (they might have been on another forum) I came across a reference to a place called Cold War Shooters out of Texas.

They came highly recommended as a place to buy CA-legal Saiga-12's, and other AK type rifles.

I also found out that they have closed, been reopened by someone else, and appear to have another store in So Cal somewhere. I think I've also seen them have a table at the Crossroads of The West gun shows.

Are they still a well-recommended store under the new owners?

and, one completely unrelated question: how bad is it to use a right-handed shotgun if you are left-handed? I've fired a few rounds through a 12 guage with no problem, but are there any shotguns that should be avoided due to handedness?

 

[Andrew Wyatt]

Ahriman: If you don't mind a bit of a drive, i'd be happy to take you out and get you familiar with your options, including things that aren't shotguns.

 

[ahriman]

PM sent. That's very kind, thank you.

 

[zhyla]

[regarding Saiga 12] Even with a "bullet button" or some such, I'm sure the CADOJ will at some point simply declare it illegal and seize it.

There is no reason to believe this any more than that semi-auto shotguns in general will be banned. And I don't think this is very likely at all.

I'm not really sure what kind of apocalypse fantasy you subscribe to but for outdoor environments where you may be shooting a lot of rounds I don't think a shotgun is the best choice.

There are reasons the military uses rifles. Weight, which you seem to be concerned with, is one of them. As far as I know, all auto shotguns are heavier than the average pump gun. And shotguns are heavier than, say, an AR or AK carbine.

 

[rcmodel]

A good 30-30 Marlin lever-action would better serve your needs for close as well as long range if shooting cars is a concern.

And a "sporting rifle" like a 30-30 won't be looked at as harshly by the California Cops as an AK-47 shotgun I betcha!

Another plus is, they don't kick much, ammo is lighter so you can back-pack more of it, and a lever-gun magazine can be kept topped off without a break in firing.

rc

 

[Mudinyeri]

I *think* the Mossberg 935 Magnum Autoloader Pistol Grip - Turkey fits all your criteria.

 

[ahriman]

So, considering all the advice offered above, I looked around some more, and came across Ithaca.

http://www.ithacagun.com/defense37s.html

the model 37 has a cadre of fans (seems very popular amongst hunters), and the bottom-ejection of shells would make the gun truly ambidextrous... 8 shell magazine is available, steel receiver, not terribly expensive.

it'll be a bit before i buy, but I like to know what's out there. Thanks, all, for your help. Any further advice will be greatly appreciated as well.

 

[GMHAYESUSN]

Remington 870 either mag or super mag (2 3/4 and 3 inch and 3.5 inch for super) or a saiga 12 gauge they shoot either 2 3/4 or 3 inch and are semi auto pistole grip and all sorts of other goodies

 

[Sheepdog1968]

sigh... I guess to save that much coin, I can learn to work a pump properly...

I was in the position to purchase a new shotgun not that long ago to replace my current home defense weapon in which I wasn't really limited by funds on the decision (no, I wasn't going to get a Parazzi but you understand what I mean). I tried both semi's and pumps. I opted for a pump. I felt it was more reliable than a semi as long as you don't short stroke it. There are cetainly pros and cons to each. Don't think of it as settling for the cheaper one. Pumps by the major manufacturer's are really good weapons if you practice. I like both pumps and semi's but for me, I feel the pump is a better choice.

 

[tactikel]

if you still want an autoloader (with 3.5" chamber) you may consider this:

http://www.mossberg.com/products/default.asp?id=1&section=products

The overbored barrel will not shoot slugs (you can pick up a slug barrel) but you would save $$$ over other autos.

IMHO a standard 12 ga 3" pump is probably the most cost effective. Either an 870 or Moss. 500 would be fine, and much cheaper. Use the $$ saving to buy ammo for practice and to store.