It can, if you shop carefully, only get what you need, and are disciplined.
Unfortunately most of us are not and only end up shooting more for the same money, or worse.
Newbie, Want to Reload, Have Some Q's (45/70, 10mm, .357)
- Thread starter David Spires
- Start date
- Status
Unfortunately most of us are not and only end up shooting more for the same money, or worse.
Toprudder
Member
Lots of good info already. I will just add my 2 cents worth.
I load 10mm, 38spl, and 357mag. I have found that BE86 powder works very well in all of those. It is my preferred powder in 10mm. In 357mag, you won't get full magnum velocity, but it will give stout plinking loads that are fun to shoot. It can be used in most places that Unique is used, but meters much better.
For 10mm, I use plated 180gn Xtreme bullets. For 357 I have used plated, coated, and FMJ in my revolver. Since I have a 357mag rifle, my preferred bullet is Zero 158 JSP which perform as well as Hornady, but cost just a tad more than plated.
Lee Classic Turret press is a great press for beginners (and old timers, too). Even though I started with a Dillon (which I still use) I have a LCT on the other end of the bench that I use more than my Dillon. Run it without the auto-index rod installed and use it as a single stage press to get started. About 90% of what I do with it is in single-stage mode. I have probably a dozen turrets (they cost about $12 each) with dies installed for different calibers.
Good luck, and welcome to the forum.
I load 10mm, 38spl, and 357mag. I have found that BE86 powder works very well in all of those. It is my preferred powder in 10mm. In 357mag, you won't get full magnum velocity, but it will give stout plinking loads that are fun to shoot. It can be used in most places that Unique is used, but meters much better.
For 10mm, I use plated 180gn Xtreme bullets. For 357 I have used plated, coated, and FMJ in my revolver. Since I have a 357mag rifle, my preferred bullet is Zero 158 JSP which perform as well as Hornady, but cost just a tad more than plated.
Lee Classic Turret press is a great press for beginners (and old timers, too). Even though I started with a Dillon (which I still use) I have a LCT on the other end of the bench that I use more than my Dillon. Run it without the auto-index rod installed and use it as a single stage press to get started. About 90% of what I do with it is in single-stage mode. I have probably a dozen turrets (they cost about $12 each) with dies installed for different calibers.
Good luck, and welcome to the forum.
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ArchAngelCD
Member.
While that is a good manual you can buy the current issue, the 50th Edition brand new for under $20 from Amazon and other places online.
With all the new powders and cartridges finding out I expect there will be another release fairly soon even though this edition and the previous edition are not that old.
Toprudder
Member
Lyman is one of my go-to manuals. Usually the first one I will reference, but I have about 10 other manuals now.
Vern Humphrey
Member
Nowadays, a lot of handloaders use powder coating instead of traditional bullet lube. It's cheap (usually cheaper than bullet lube) and the only equipment you need to apply it is a $20 toaster oven from Wal Mart.
Lee products are good. And low cost. Compare a Lee sizing die with a lubricator-sizer with dies!
Casting is cheap -- if you have a supply of lead. Lee moulds are good and low cost.
Hey! Most of us Grunts still have all our fingers and thumbs, but we find it hard to count to 10.
in my area (in leftyland no less) they advertise intro to reloading classes in the craft type papers, as well as connections at the local gun ranges. Give your location on THR, and you may have someone who can come by and walk you through. As someone who could not find local help, it was not the easiest figuring it out by reading. Lee's famous for their less than adequate instructions, and thats all I had to go by. Get the Lyman manual, its an eye opener. Most importantly, get a powder check die if loading on a turret/progressive. Get a puller hammer too. Casting is only a money saver if you have access to free lead. I worked in a tire shop for years, and modern wheel weights are not lead. Stick on weights can be, but its not reliably so. RMR bullets are great. Missouri bullets are as well, and cost almost as low as bulk lead after shipping. You may want to buy powder locally. 1LB will get you around 600 rounds, and if loading is not for you, it can be difficult to sell used powder. If you load light, you can get 1500/LB powder. Cabelas is the best place to buy primers in my area.
Don't worry to much about going cheap either. My lee 4 hole is closing on on 55,000 rounds, been taken apart for cleaning twice, had the ratchet replaces (the $0.50 one) about six times, and the clamshell screw replaced with a longer one with a nut. About $8 in total maintenance cost. The measure still throw .2 grains or better with most powder. Don't mind the bold text, by keyboard got water in it, and does that from time to time.
kmw1954
Member
Here you go if you don't want to buy used;
https://www.titanreloading.com/lee-...et-press/lee-4-hole-turret-press-w-auto-index
https://www.titanreloading.com/lee-...ee-turret-press/lee-classic-cast-turret-press
https://www.titanreloading.com/lee-...lee-reloading-kits/lee-value-turret-press-kit
On the other hand, I have a Lee 3 hole turret press, Lee Pro1000, Lee Auto Breech Lock Pro and an RCBS JR3 single stage press. All but the Breech Lock were purchased used on ebay along with 380acp, 9mm X2, 45acp and 38 Spl dies, Lyman D5 beam scale, 3 Lee Auto disk powder measures and shell plated for the Pro1000 press. All totaled I have about $300.00 invested in this used equipment. All is in good serviceable condition and is routinely used.
https://www.titanreloading.com/lee-...et-press/lee-4-hole-turret-press-w-auto-index
https://www.titanreloading.com/lee-...ee-turret-press/lee-classic-cast-turret-press
https://www.titanreloading.com/lee-...lee-reloading-kits/lee-value-turret-press-kit
On the other hand, I have a Lee 3 hole turret press, Lee Pro1000, Lee Auto Breech Lock Pro and an RCBS JR3 single stage press. All but the Breech Lock were purchased used on ebay along with 380acp, 9mm X2, 45acp and 38 Spl dies, Lyman D5 beam scale, 3 Lee Auto disk powder measures and shell plated for the Pro1000 press. All totaled I have about $300.00 invested in this used equipment. All is in good serviceable condition and is routinely used.
This is pretty much the kit I ordered to get started. https://kempfgunshop.com/Kempf_Kit_w/_Lee_Classic_Turret_Press_-90064Kit-6575.html $200 with a set of carbide dies. Add a manual (or two), a scale, and calipers, and you're pretty well ready to start converting components into ammo, and in a reasonably efficient manner.
I happen to like AA#9 and AA#7 for "real" 10mm... it meters better than Blue Dot... and Alliant's warnings about using Blue dot in .357 and .41 magnum (two cartridges that bracket 10mm's parameters in many ways) have made me nervous about it. I loaded a few Blue Dot 10mm rounds early in my reloading, but haven't in a long time. AA #9 in particularly is basically impossible to overcharge in many 10mm loadings, which was comforting to me in my early loading.
Stew0576
Addicted
I've been using Longshot for my 10mm loads, using 185 grain jhp made by zero bullets, definitely full power loads
I also use Longshot. It's awesome!
Don't do it. I'm not going to argue against some of the sound advice already given, but I would instead have you consider why it may be better to pass on reloading for now.
As others have advised, reloading to save money is possible, but not the typical experience. More importantly, reloading to save money is the wrong goal and the wrong motivation. Just as with firearms themselves, reloading is dangerous and the results of your practice are for keeps. Do you think it would be wise to acquire and shoot the cheapest guns you can find? I wouldn't advise reloading that way either.
I try to buy high-quality firearms and I buy high-quality reloading equipment -- not necessarily the most expensive. Some of the exorbitant expenses in reloading are for convenience or for precision that isn't necessary for most disciplines or for safety. But one of the ways that reloading the "proper way" is more expensive than just gettin' 'r done as cheap as possible is the space and equipment to keep your work area organized. This isn't a matter of having "Redding" and "Forrester" instead of "Lee," but a matter of having shop space, storage and a work area that can be dedicated to working at a discipline that takes the utmost care and has no tolerance for slight errors, mix-ups, or slips. At your age, you don't have the kind of stability it takes to keep an area like that. It's probably hasn't been long since you moved and even now it won't be long before you move again. All the stuff you spend to acquire for reloading is almost certainly going to become a burden rather than a true asset.
Reloading the "right" way means that you don't skimp on having a tool to do something the right way and that you're not too cheap to have the right tool for the job. Having the proper tools doesn't require a huge budget, but when you add up case cleaning, media separation, brass prep (trimming, chamfer, debur, etc.), priming tools, die sets, press, a decent stand or bench, powder measure, scale, calipers, reloading books, a chronograph, tripod, loading blocks, cartridge and component storage, not to mention all the ammo you'll spend just on load development, it's not unusual to have expenses where you'll need to consume over 5000 rounds to break even. You might not really start to save until you've consumed over 10,000 rounds. Actual break-even points vary with the cost of factory ammo, but if you're not shooting that kind of volume anytime soon, you're better off waiting to invest in reloading later. If you are short on money, shooting a less costly cartridge like 9mm or .223 is practically impossible to beat for economy by reloading. The break-even point might be many tens of thousands of rounds. As many have said before, reloading typically doesn't save money but allows one to shoot more. It's the higher volume shooter that benefits the most from reloading. If you shoot modest volumes, the difference in cost is meaningless, but the reloading room is still going to need to sit somewhere.
Besides all the other expenses, you're going to have to put your time into reloading. If reloaders had to pay themselves for the time they spend on reloading, it wouldn't seem thrifty at all. And let me tell you, if there's one expense you can't afford to be cheap on, it's your time taken to learn and do the job right.
Savings on volume is certainly not the only motivation for reloading. The best reasons for reloading have nothing to do with saving money or being cheap. It's a highly technical avocation with an immense amount of variety in the sciences, math, and technology to learn and explore. It is best approached as such and not as a shortcut to get cheap ammo. But is that kind of avocation really what you have time for right now?
Lastly, I don't intend to be patronizing, but I reloaded when I was your age, in college. I can't believe I got away with it. I did it on my own with no mentor, no Youtube, no forum, just from books. I probably got away with it because I only reloaded with slow rifle powders and most of my reloading was for a really stout, over-bored 12 gauge that probably suffered more horrendous abuse than I was aware of. I stayed away from the pistol powders simply because I wasn't yet 21 and had no practical means to acquire a handgun in that state. I didn't consider myself careless back then, but now I cringe at the thought of my 19 or 20 year old self putting loads together. Obviously, you're an adult who is considered mature and sensible enough to possess and use firearms and do even more dangerous things like drive a car. I can't just tell you that you're a fool and that you have a lot of growing up to do. But I would advise that you consider the wisdom of moderating your risks while you lack experience. You wouldn't just give your gun to some middle-school or high-school kid who was skating past the range and tell them to try it out. You'd at least give them some instruction in firearm safety, muzzle control, trigger discipline that sort of thing. Just like you weren't given the keys on your 16th birthday and told to take off, you were introduced to driving a car in an intelligent, methodical, incremental way with instruction in theory and in practice. The thing is, most people experience some failure when they're learning to handle firearms or drive cars. There's those times when they were inattentive to the direction of their muzzle, or they failed to clear a gun when they should have. Maybe they even have an ND. The chances are you gained some experiencing the hard way learning to drive too. If you're twenty-something now, it might seem like you're vastly more mature than a high-school kid. But you're really not that many years the more wise. If you start reloading, you can expect to have your share of "fender benders." I hope they're nothing worse than that. But do you really need to take on that risk now, given all the other risks you're already taking? I can guarantee you that your older self will someday wish that he could have told your younger self about all the things he'll suffer the loss of, and that he had time to take and do it right.
As others have advised, reloading to save money is possible, but not the typical experience. More importantly, reloading to save money is the wrong goal and the wrong motivation. Just as with firearms themselves, reloading is dangerous and the results of your practice are for keeps. Do you think it would be wise to acquire and shoot the cheapest guns you can find? I wouldn't advise reloading that way either.
I try to buy high-quality firearms and I buy high-quality reloading equipment -- not necessarily the most expensive. Some of the exorbitant expenses in reloading are for convenience or for precision that isn't necessary for most disciplines or for safety. But one of the ways that reloading the "proper way" is more expensive than just gettin' 'r done as cheap as possible is the space and equipment to keep your work area organized. This isn't a matter of having "Redding" and "Forrester" instead of "Lee," but a matter of having shop space, storage and a work area that can be dedicated to working at a discipline that takes the utmost care and has no tolerance for slight errors, mix-ups, or slips. At your age, you don't have the kind of stability it takes to keep an area like that. It's probably hasn't been long since you moved and even now it won't be long before you move again. All the stuff you spend to acquire for reloading is almost certainly going to become a burden rather than a true asset.
Reloading the "right" way means that you don't skimp on having a tool to do something the right way and that you're not too cheap to have the right tool for the job. Having the proper tools doesn't require a huge budget, but when you add up case cleaning, media separation, brass prep (trimming, chamfer, debur, etc.), priming tools, die sets, press, a decent stand or bench, powder measure, scale, calipers, reloading books, a chronograph, tripod, loading blocks, cartridge and component storage, not to mention all the ammo you'll spend just on load development, it's not unusual to have expenses where you'll need to consume over 5000 rounds to break even. You might not really start to save until you've consumed over 10,000 rounds. Actual break-even points vary with the cost of factory ammo, but if you're not shooting that kind of volume anytime soon, you're better off waiting to invest in reloading later. If you are short on money, shooting a less costly cartridge like 9mm or .223 is practically impossible to beat for economy by reloading. The break-even point might be many tens of thousands of rounds. As many have said before, reloading typically doesn't save money but allows one to shoot more. It's the higher volume shooter that benefits the most from reloading. If you shoot modest volumes, the difference in cost is meaningless, but the reloading room is still going to need to sit somewhere.
Besides all the other expenses, you're going to have to put your time into reloading. If reloaders had to pay themselves for the time they spend on reloading, it wouldn't seem thrifty at all. And let me tell you, if there's one expense you can't afford to be cheap on, it's your time taken to learn and do the job right.
Savings on volume is certainly not the only motivation for reloading. The best reasons for reloading have nothing to do with saving money or being cheap. It's a highly technical avocation with an immense amount of variety in the sciences, math, and technology to learn and explore. It is best approached as such and not as a shortcut to get cheap ammo. But is that kind of avocation really what you have time for right now?
Lastly, I don't intend to be patronizing, but I reloaded when I was your age, in college. I can't believe I got away with it. I did it on my own with no mentor, no Youtube, no forum, just from books. I probably got away with it because I only reloaded with slow rifle powders and most of my reloading was for a really stout, over-bored 12 gauge that probably suffered more horrendous abuse than I was aware of. I stayed away from the pistol powders simply because I wasn't yet 21 and had no practical means to acquire a handgun in that state. I didn't consider myself careless back then, but now I cringe at the thought of my 19 or 20 year old self putting loads together. Obviously, you're an adult who is considered mature and sensible enough to possess and use firearms and do even more dangerous things like drive a car. I can't just tell you that you're a fool and that you have a lot of growing up to do. But I would advise that you consider the wisdom of moderating your risks while you lack experience. You wouldn't just give your gun to some middle-school or high-school kid who was skating past the range and tell them to try it out. You'd at least give them some instruction in firearm safety, muzzle control, trigger discipline that sort of thing. Just like you weren't given the keys on your 16th birthday and told to take off, you were introduced to driving a car in an intelligent, methodical, incremental way with instruction in theory and in practice. The thing is, most people experience some failure when they're learning to handle firearms or drive cars. There's those times when they were inattentive to the direction of their muzzle, or they failed to clear a gun when they should have. Maybe they even have an ND. The chances are you gained some experiencing the hard way learning to drive too. If you're twenty-something now, it might seem like you're vastly more mature than a high-school kid. But you're really not that many years the more wise. If you start reloading, you can expect to have your share of "fender benders." I hope they're nothing worse than that. But do you really need to take on that risk now, given all the other risks you're already taking? I can guarantee you that your older self will someday wish that he could have told your younger self about all the things he'll suffer the loss of, and that he had time to take and do it right.
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I agree with AA#9 but BlueDot is not the devil. Keep you pressure reasonable and use heavy bullets.
Jessesky
Member
- Joined
- Aug 25, 2016
- Messages
- 981
I reload for both 45-70 and 357. For powders, 45-70 will need it’s own (I use IMR4198). you can use something like blue dot in both 357 and 10mm.
Bullets I buy 405gr from Missouri bullet company coated in hi-tek so I don’t have to lube them I think they’re something like $.17 a piece. I love them. I load to about 1300fps
I bought Lee dies for most of my cartridges because they were the cheapest. Now having some RCBS dies for $15 more a set, it is worth it. I find they are easier to work with since they have locking screws.
You can find once fired brass, but 45-70 still won’t be much cheaper than new Starline, and 357 brass is cheap enough that I buy new so I don’t have to deal with the headaches of once fired. (Sellers aren’t always that honest of how many times it’s really been fired)
Bullets I buy 405gr from Missouri bullet company coated in hi-tek so I don’t have to lube them I think they’re something like $.17 a piece. I love them. I load to about 1300fps
I bought Lee dies for most of my cartridges because they were the cheapest. Now having some RCBS dies for $15 more a set, it is worth it. I find they are easier to work with since they have locking screws.
You can find once fired brass, but 45-70 still won’t be much cheaper than new Starline, and 357 brass is cheap enough that I buy new so I don’t have to deal with the headaches of once fired. (Sellers aren’t always that honest of how many times it’s really been fired)
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Dudedog
Contributing Member
I agree BE86 might be a good starting powder for .38/.357 works well in them as well as other pistol rounds.
It meters much better than Unique, sort of the Modern Unique.
As far as reloading
Only you can decide if you want to make the effort required to do it safely and correctly.
I would argue that age within reason has nothing to do with responsibility,
ability to follow directions, ability to use common sense, or be neat and organized.
I managed to load a lot of 12 gauge shotgun shells between 13 and 16 and never had any issues other than funds to buy more components.
I had a recipe, I followed the recipe, I threw out cases I didn't like the looks of, I was careful and paid attention to what I was doing.
I had no "fender benders"
There are people who don’t care for Lee equipment and say it’s cheap junk.
I disagree, and lots of others will to. Lots of perfectly good ammo loaded on Lee equipment, even some by me.
Yes reloading can cost you money, you may not save any because you shoot more and have fun.
You may shoot the same amount and save money, it is possible but most people just shoot more and buy more reloading equipment....
If you enjoy shooting you may enjoy reloading your own ammo on the other hand you may not. You will never know until you try.
If you find it’s not for you odds are someone would be willing to buy your equipment so if it's not for you, you would not be out all the money you invested.
I could take some comments about reloading mentioned above and say apply them to women.
Don’t ever start, don’t get involved, it will cost you a lot of money, now is not a good time wait till later, be careful, it can be dangerous, you have to be neat and organized….
But if you never try you will never know what you might be missing.
I am not an old guy, only 58 but I will say this,
as far as I know you only get one life, try to do the things you want while you can (use common sense of course)
Tomorrow is not guarenteed for any of us so tomorrow may be to late.
It meters much better than Unique, sort of the Modern Unique.
As far as reloading
Only you can decide if you want to make the effort required to do it safely and correctly.
I would argue that age within reason has nothing to do with responsibility,
ability to follow directions, ability to use common sense, or be neat and organized.
I managed to load a lot of 12 gauge shotgun shells between 13 and 16 and never had any issues other than funds to buy more components.
I had a recipe, I followed the recipe, I threw out cases I didn't like the looks of, I was careful and paid attention to what I was doing.
I had no "fender benders"
There are people who don’t care for Lee equipment and say it’s cheap junk.
I disagree, and lots of others will to. Lots of perfectly good ammo loaded on Lee equipment, even some by me.
Yes reloading can cost you money, you may not save any because you shoot more and have fun.
You may shoot the same amount and save money, it is possible but most people just shoot more and buy more reloading equipment....
If you enjoy shooting you may enjoy reloading your own ammo on the other hand you may not. You will never know until you try.
If you find it’s not for you odds are someone would be willing to buy your equipment so if it's not for you, you would not be out all the money you invested.
I could take some comments about reloading mentioned above and say apply them to women.
Don’t ever start, don’t get involved, it will cost you a lot of money, now is not a good time wait till later, be careful, it can be dangerous, you have to be neat and organized….
But if you never try you will never know what you might be missing.
I am not an old guy, only 58 but I will say this,
as far as I know you only get one life, try to do the things you want while you can (use common sense of course)
Tomorrow is not guarenteed for any of us so tomorrow may be to late.
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thomas15
Member
As other posters have said, pick 1 caliber and get stuff for just that caliber, dies and so forth. It will be less expensive and easier to pick a handgun caliber. While you are getting your initial education you can save up for the others calibers. What to actually buy (brand and model) is an emotional task for many handloaders so I stay out of that debate.
Buy 1 or two load manuals off Amazon used books. I don't recommend anything but will say among the 75 or so load manuals I have in my collection, the one I go to first is the Lyman, the next is Hornady. Most if not all of the powder suppliers will supply load data for free. There have been many new powders introduced in the last few years and a few discontinued that almost every load manual is obsolete but the "how to" information is good.
Everyone thinks the press is the main thing and it is but it is also very important to have a good reliable powder scale. I have 6 powder scales on my bench including an RCBS Charge Master and two other electronic scales, but the one I always use to verify my powder measure setting is a humble RCBS 5-0-5. I purchased a Redding #1 powder scale off a facebook poster not too long ago for $30.00 PP. This is old and oil dampened but I love it, built to last.
If you are really serious about handloading send me a PM I will send you a few things to help you get started.
Buy 1 or two load manuals off Amazon used books. I don't recommend anything but will say among the 75 or so load manuals I have in my collection, the one I go to first is the Lyman, the next is Hornady. Most if not all of the powder suppliers will supply load data for free. There have been many new powders introduced in the last few years and a few discontinued that almost every load manual is obsolete but the "how to" information is good.
Everyone thinks the press is the main thing and it is but it is also very important to have a good reliable powder scale. I have 6 powder scales on my bench including an RCBS Charge Master and two other electronic scales, but the one I always use to verify my powder measure setting is a humble RCBS 5-0-5. I purchased a Redding #1 powder scale off a facebook poster not too long ago for $30.00 PP. This is old and oil dampened but I love it, built to last.
If you are really serious about handloading send me a PM I will send you a few things to help you get started.
thomas15
Member
I could not agree with this more. I have a reputation on this forum for being somewhat critical of the choices some here make and things they say and I rarely jump on any bandwagon but Dudedog is exactly right. Even when time and money is no object it makes good sense to crack one nut at a time. I spent decades thinking about reloading and saving brass, but when I finally committed I committed fully, sort of making up for lost time. Well it's not critical that those of us that are firearms persons handload, handloading will enhance the experience in many ways. I have dies and tooling for caliber I don't have guns for.
Zaydok Allen
Member
- Joined
- Feb 12, 2011
- Messages
- 13,274
LOL!
FROGO207
Member
^^^You don't have guns for YET! I have done this many times over-----finding brass and saving a bunch, get a set of used dies for a deal----Heck why not just buy that 500 S&W and put that stuff to use.
I have done this many times over-----finding brass and saving a bunch, get a set of used dies for a deal----Heck why not just buy that 500 S&W and put that stuff to use.David Spires
Member
Thank you all so much for the advice, I've been reading all the links and researching the equipment suggested and feel I am on much more solid footing now than when I posted this. I'm happy to see everyone is welcoming and supportive here and look forward to being part of the community. Thanks again!
sparkyv
Member
This is great, simple, no-nonsense advice. Hard to say more. Well done, Hokie. Sure hope you can dig up that previous post you mentioned.
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