Newbie with questions.

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MissouriPatriot55

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Hello,

First time poster. I heard this was the best gun forum on the Internet, so here I am.

I had a couple of questions.

I’m an owner of a “budget” AR-15 from Bushmaster in .223. I’ve been eyeing the 6.8 SPC II for a while now but I have a couple of questions.

I like the 6.8 A-5 from LWRC, but I can’t really stomach the price. I have been searching around and I stumbled across the 6.8 SPC series from Yankee Hill Machine. This is more in my price range and I know they make decent parts, and they use these parts on their rifles. My question is, does YHM make quality products/rifles?

Also, aside from YHM is there anyone who makes a mid range priced AR ($1300-$1800 or so) that’s good quality? I don’t need Mil-Spec or anything like that. But I don’t want anything cheap.

Thanks for having me! I look forward to your responses
 
MissouriPatriot55 said:
Hello,

First time poster. I heard this was the best gun forum on the Internet, so here I am.

I had a couple of questions.

I’m an owner of a “budget” AR-15 from Bushmaster in .223. I’ve been eyeing the 6.8 SPC II for a while now but I have a couple of questions.

I like the 6.8 A-5 from LWRC, but I can’t really stomach the price. I have been searching around and I stumbled across the 6.8 SPC series from Yankee Hill Machine. This is more in my price range and I know they make decent parts, and they use these parts on their rifles. My question is, does YHM make quality products/rifles?

Also, aside from YHM is there anyone who makes a mid range priced AR ($1300-$1800 or so) that’s good quality? I don’t need Mil-Spec or anything like that. But I don’t want anything cheap.

Thanks for having me! I look forward to your responses
Click to expand...
You don't need a complete rifle, all you neef are Mags, barrel, bolt, so better idea would be complete upper so you can still shoot .223 out of the old one and switch to 6.8 when you want to use that version. Two guns in one, sort of. On another note, you can still use the AR mags, just don't top them all all the way.
 
Cemetery21 said:
Welcome from Missouri.

Several good options. Here are just a couple:
As stated above, you could go with just and upper and use your complete lower. https://www.blackstonearms.com/category-s/100.htm
Rock River makes very decent rifles and they do 6.8s well within your price range. https://www.rockriverarms.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=category.display&category_ID=109
Click to expand...

So, if I just bought the upper, all I’d have to do is mate it with the lower of the AR? Just like swapping a slide on a pistol?

I’m not keen on just buying the upper. My budget AR is literally a Black Friday box from Bass Pro. I mean I guess it wouldn’t hurt, but is that worth it? Or should I just purchase an entirely new firearm?
 
Seems like all my extra upper/lowers, bolts, detent springs turn into complete rifles.

But, if you had one nice lower, set up with the stock you like and a good trigger, yes, it works to just push the pins and switch uppers (as long as you stay in the AR-15 cartridge family, which 6.8 is). I would use a 6.8 mag however.

It is your decision. With your stated budget, you could get a complete rifle and upgrade it to a really nice trigger. And/or, spend $300-400 on your existing lower for a stock and trigger to upgrade it.
 
Every time I have any spare parts around, they turn into yet another complete AR. I was in the same boat years ago, I had one AR and bought a complete 6.8 upper and mags to switch out, That turned into another complete rifle. Now 1/3 of my 64 gun safe is nothing but AR's.

One must keep any and all AR parts well segregated and under lock and key if you don't want them turning into complete firearms. :rofl:

Yes many of us suffer from BRD (Black Rifle Disease)



PS. Keeping parts segregated does not work very well. I have parts coming tomorrow to finish my 4.5" AR22 pistol.
 
MissouriPatriot55 said:
I’m not keen on just buying the upper. My budget AR is literally a Black Friday box from Bass Pro. I mean I guess it wouldn’t hurt, but is that worth it? Or should I just purchase an entirely new firearm?
Click to expand...

Than what you have is Mil-Spec already!:)

The lower you have is totally fine. Price doesn’t always equate quality in ARs.

I find when I want a lower for a new upper, I end up building the same thing as last time.
Why?
Because those are the things that fit me, look nice and I can afford. I’ll save even more money by not “wasting” it on another lower, that will look and operate the same as the others.

I can only shoot two at a time anyway.;)

By not spending on a lower, you can put more into a higher quality upper. The upper contains most of the parts for accuracy, don’t scrimp here.

And finally, 6.5 Grendel for the win!:D
 
MissouriPatriot55 said:
Also, aside from YHM is there anyone who makes a mid range priced AR ($1300-$1800 or so) that’s good quality? I don’t need Mil-Spec or anything like that. But I don’t want anything cheap.

Thanks for having me! I look forward to your responses
Click to expand...
If you're willing to pay for a decent rifle, (and it seems that you are) "mil-spec" parts are the minimum you should settle for. An actual, completely mil spec rifle is going to cost somewhere north of 25 grand, since it'd have to be a transferable full auto. Some mil spec parts though, are quite common, nothing particularly special about them. "Mil spec" just means that the parts meet a minimum standard for materials and fit within a given set of dimensional parameters. Rifles from companies like YHM, BCM, LWRC, Larue, etc. are at least mil spec, often better (or as good as), depending on which components are chosen.
 
Demi-human said:
Than what you have is Mil-Spec already!:)

The lower you have is totally fine. Price doesn’t always equate quality in ARs.

I find when I want a lower for a new upper, I end up building the same thing as last time.
Why?
Because those are the things that fit me, look nice and I can afford. I’ll save even more money by not “wasting” it on another lower, that will look and operate the same as the others.

I can only shoot two at a time anyway.;)

By not spending on a lower, you can put more into a higher quality upper. The upper contains most of the parts for accuracy, don’t scrimp here.

And finally, 6.5 Grendel for the win!:D
Click to expand...

I was actually going back and forth for a while on a 6.5 Grendel or a 6.8 SPC. I ultimately chose the 6.8 for the extra punch it packs at the ranges I plan on shooting. I’m pretty much Inside of the 200 yard envelope 95% of the time (not a lot of flat 300+ yard vistas where I’m at) the 6.8 and Grendel are basically the same at that range but the 6.8s seem to do better out of a 16” barrel which is my preference for ARs and what mainly influenced my decision.

You’re not the first person to recommend the 6.5 Grendel over the 6.8. Why is that exactly?
 
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I really appreciate everyone’s help. I see why this place was so highly recommend. Thank you all for your patience and suggestions. I might stick around this place, I might learn something.

Since the consensus seems to be that the lower on my Black Friday Bass Pro Bushmaster .223 is sufficient, I’ll take a look at some uppers.

Now, here’s my issue. I can take pistols apart all day, no issues. Revolvers, semi-autos, no problem. Admittedly I’m not as well versed in tactical rifles. I do have ample experience with bolt action hunting rifles and I’m extremely comfortable with them. ARs are something new, and I want to learn.

Is the mating of an upper and a lower difficult? And do I need any specialized tools? Because I’ll be honest, spending money on an upper and a lower separately is appealing. But I don’t want it to be a situation where gunsmith school starts to sound appealing after a while . Also, on that note, do companies matter? Like for example, is it preferable that you mate a DD upper with a DD lower?

What should you look for in each. Obviously a decent trigger on a lower, but what else?
 
MissouriPatriot55 said:
Is the mating of an upper and a lower difficult?
Click to expand...

With your current rifle, push out the takedown and pivot pins with the bolt closed. Take off the upper. Put the upper back on and push the pins back in. That's how difficult it is, thanks to the universal modularity of the AR (and the M-16/M4).

I've been working with them since the mid 1980s and never had a set that wouldn't "mate" by just the above procedure. Maybe all that mating is why they seem to reproduce so well.
 
Cemetery21 said:
With your current rifle, push out the takedown and pivot pins with the bolt closed. Take off the upper. Put the upper back on and push the pins back in. That's how difficult it is, thanks to the universal modularity of the AR (and the M-16/M4).

I've been working with them since the mid 1980s and never had a set that wouldn't "mate" by just the above procedure. Maybe all that mating is why they seem to reproduce so well.
Click to expand...

Seems easy enough. No tools required.

I like that.
 
I hate to get into recommending what to look for - there are just too many good options to fit about any possible use or personal preference scenarios.

To me, trigger and barrel are most important. I grew up on single stage triggers. Lots of folks (maybe most folks) prefer a two-stage. Excellent triggers are available in each style. If you plan on doing the work, a drop-in trigger/hammer unit is easy. Push out the trigger and hammer pins, take out the old parts (maybe have to get the safety selector out of the way), drop in the new and follow directions. No adjustments to make, just run safety checks.

Barrels - I just wanted a reasonably light weight and accurate 16" barrel with a mid-length gas system. Again, there are almost endless options here for various end users. For my purposes, Mr. Beene at AR Performance has done a lot of development of AR barrels (of many calibers) and tweaking of chamber designs and even a possibly stronger bolt design. He is pretty opinionated and he is a 6.8 advocate. I've built 4 rifles with his barrels and have been very satisfied. On his homepage, there is a link to complete uppers of many calibers (see post #4).

It may be hard to figure out what YOUR personal preferences are without owning/using a few more rifles - it does evolve. 6.8 or 6.5 is another valid question. Based on your stated use, the target would not know the difference. There are a lot more 6.5 bullet options now than way back when I went 6.8. I just wanted a hunter out to 300 yds. I reload everything, so availability of factory ammo is not on my radar.
 
MissouriPatriot55 said:
Also, aside from YHM is there anyone who makes a mid range priced AR ($1300-$1800 or so) that’s good quality? I don’t need Mil-Spec or anything like that. But I don’t want anything cheap.
Click to expand...

For $1300-1800, you can buy/build a rifle which will be greater quality than Mil-spec, without sacrificing reliability.

Do you like your current lower? Do you need/want a complete new rifle, or just need/want a new upper (and mags)? You might be financially advantaged to only buy an upper, OR, maybe better still, buy the upper and put the money which would have bought a new lower towards upgrades for your existing lower.

I like the 6.8 SPC, although I tend to favor the 6.5 Grendel for such uses in this market era. I have two 6.8’s currently, an 18” and a 10.5”. Using match grade barrels, JP adjustable gas blocks, Midwest & Troy free float handguards, ambidextrous charging handles, quality muzzle brakes, and proven quality bolt carriers, both uppers were $900 and $700- a pretty standard price point I recommend for a quality upper.

Regarding 6.5 vs. 6.8, there’s really no difference in “punch” at range, and the difference in performance from short barrels is highly exaggerated. I also have 20” and 12.5” 6.5 Grendels - anyone saying one is really better than the other is highly biased, and either used the wrong bullets in one and the right bullets in the other, or they’re standing up on a minuscule difference of paper data. What gives the Grendel the advantage today is the same thing which gave the SPC the advantage when they both were new to market - market support. The Grendel has more ammo options, more brass options, better availability, more suitable bullets available, more barrels, mags, dies, and bolts available... ~15 years ago, the opposite was true, and the SPC was the easy one to buy and easy one to feed. But 5-8yrs ago, that flipped on its head - the SPC waned and the Grendel surged ahead. It appears, for those of us watching, this won’t revert any time soon. Neither is a wrong answer, but the Grendel is more sustainable currently, and will remain to be in the future. I’ve built both Grendel and SPC rifles for myself in the last two years (among a large fleet of AR’s), so I can say I do consider either to be valid - but I do occasionally wish I only had one or the other, favoring the Grendel. When my 6.8 barrels are burned out, I’ll replace them with 6.5 Grendel barrels.
 
Varminterror said:
For $1300-1800, you can buy/build a rifle which will be greater quality than Mil-spec, without sacrificing reliability.

Do you like your current lower? Do you need/want a complete new rifle, or just need/want a new upper (and mags)? You might be financially advantaged to only buy an upper, OR, maybe better still, buy the upper and put the money which would have bought a new lower towards upgrades for your existing lower.

I like the 6.8 SPC, although I tend to favor the 6.5 Grendel for such uses in this market era. I have two 6.8’s currently, an 18” and a 10.5”. Using match grade barrels, JP adjustable gas blocks, Midwest & Troy free float handguards, ambidextrous charging handles, quality muzzle brakes, and proven quality bolt carriers, both uppers were $900 and $700- a pretty standard price point I recommend for a quality upper.

Regarding 6.5 vs. 6.8, there’s really no difference in “punch” at range, and the difference in performance from short barrels is highly exaggerated. I also have 20” and 12.5” 6.5 Grendels - anyone saying one is really better than the other is highly biased, and either used the wrong bullets in one and the right bullets in the other, or they’re standing up on a minuscule difference of paper data. What gives the Grendel the advantage today is the same thing which gave the SPC the advantage when they both were new to market - market support. The Grendel has more ammo options, more brass options, better availability, more suitable bullets available, more barrels, mags, dies, and bolts available... ~15 years ago, the opposite was true, and the SPC was the easy one to buy and easy one to feed. But 5-8yrs ago, that flipped on its head - the SPC waned and the Grendel surged ahead. It appears, for those of us watching, this won’t revert any time soon. Neither is a wrong answer, but the Grendel is more sustainable currently, and will remain to be in the future. I’ve built both Grendel and SPC rifles for myself in the last two years (among a large fleet of AR’s), so I can say I do consider either to be valid - but I do occasionally wish I only had one or the other, favoring the Grendel. When my 6.8 barrels are burned out, I’ll replace them with 6.5 Grendel barrels.
Click to expand...
I don’t hate my current rifle, but I’ve shot a couple of buddies nicer rifles and you can really tell the difference between his nicer gun and my budget Bushmaster. My main concern was that I can put a new upper on it, but I wasn’t sure if that was like I don’t know.... putting a straight six in a Ferrari.

I’ll give some more thought to the 6.5. It was my initial choice originally, but my shorter barrel preference for ARs was influenced by some articles showing that the 6.8 performed better out of short barrels v long.

looks like more quarantine reading!
 
Okay, can you pin down what it was about the buddies rifles you liked? The parts are interchangable, so your rifle could be upgraded, or a different rifle built/bought with those parts.
 
Two complete rifles can be fired by two people, while one lower sharing two uppers cannot. But having one lower with 4 of the 6 shooter interfaces, remaining consistent despite multiple uppers, is a great idea also.
 
If you can take apart a revolver, you can work on an AR. And Varminterror is exactly right about the differences between the 6.5 vs the 6.8. Both are a step up from the 5.56, and with appropriate bolts and mags both function fine in an AR pattern rifle.
As you assess the perceived quality differences between your entry level rifle and your buddies nicer rifles, try to isolate your opinions to upper and lower components. It is a lot cheaper to buy and only pay extra tax (and sometimes shipping) on a lower instead of a complete rifle. You can then purchase an upper by itself for even more savings. Gives you more shopping options that way. Oh, and welcome to The High Road!
 
If you want, there (should be) plenty of "Swap AR upper" videos on Youtube.

For my 2¢ on 6.5 versus 6.8, the real next question becomes "Are you buying factory, or making your own?"
If you are just buying ammo, I'd select the one more common in your area (and, as in, in stock at the local Walmart or Academy; you'll be disinclined to shoot much $35/box stuff from an LGS). If you are making your own, then, it's which parts can you get easier versus which results do you want. (There's a kajillion 6.5 projos available out there.)
 
Cemetery21 said:
Okay, can you pin down what it was about the buddies rifles you liked? The parts are interchangable, so your rifle could be upgraded, or a different rifle built/bought with those parts.
Click to expand...

It was noticeably smoother, I felt like it cycled/fed better, and just ran better overall it didn’t feel like a target rifle, it felt like what you’d figure a military style rifle should feel like
 
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