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NFA possesion linked to Drivers License

Discussion in 'NFA Firearms and Accessories' started by JustinJ, May 20, 2013.

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  1. JustinJ

    JustinJ Member

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    A friend went through the local LE sign off for converting a rifle to an SBR. Several months ago the Travis County Sheriff promptly signed and returned his form which was then sent off the ATF. Last week my friend was in Florida when he had an encounter with the police in which they ran his ID. The encounter due to a simple misunderstanding and no trouble ensued. However, when the Florida cop ran his ID my friend overheard it reported back that he has a "Class III weapons permit". It appears that the Sheriff somehow added this information to whatever data base they search when running an ID. Given the paperwork has not even cleared yet with the ATF there is no other possible source. Is this normal?
     
  2. Sam1911

    Sam1911 Moderator Emeritus

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    Hmmm...well, as there's no "Class III Weapons Permit" at all, it's hard to say what in the world they were really talking about. Most likely this is a combination of whatever is actually in his DL record file, what the officers were told, what the officers really said, and what your friend thought he heard them say.

    Really hard to give a definitive answer. I'll be curious to see if anyone knows what info TX's system does provide.
     
  3. wally

    wally Member

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    You sure he didn't mistake what he thought he heard for "he has a concealed handgun permit"? Which is annotated on your Texas DL when called in.

    There really is no such thing as a "class III weapons permit" Each stamp is tied to a specific weapon and legal entity owning it.
     
  4. allaroundhunter

    allaroundhunter Member

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    Yep, I'm pretty sure he heard "concealed weapon permit"... Texas keeps it attached to your driver's license info.
     
  5. Sam1911

    Sam1911 Moderator Emeritus

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    Not knowing exactly what extraneous notes it is possible for anyone to add to someone's driver's license record in TX, I'm not sure it is even possible for your pal's local sheriff to have added anything at all relating to NFA items -- and I'm inclined to believe it isn't.

    However, should he have decided to do so, all he could really add is that he approved one making and registration form (Form 1). That isn't a license (it is a tax form), and doesn't say "Class III" on it anywhere (because Class 3 is an NFA DEALER's "Special Occupational Tax" type -- and no dealer is involved with a Form 1). So he would have had to been absurdly sloppy and confused to think he'd approved a "Class III Weapons Permit" for your friend, and then would have had to feel some need to express that invention of his own on the record. (Again, if that's even possible.)

    I've got to say, I'm inclined to agree with the previous poster: He heard "Concealed Weapons Permit" or some such thing, and it was garbled enough to sound like something else. His mind filled in the blanks.

    ...

    Heck, the other thing he could have heard is "Class C License", which he certainly does have. Unless he's a commercial truck driver (Class A or B), his driver's license is a "Class C" license. That would sound a lot like "Class 3 License." Not exactly what he thought he heard, but close.
     
  6. Bubbles

    Bubbles Member

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    Fifteen years ago I did a ride-along with Loudoun County SO in VA. It was a rather fun night, filled with the normal traffic stops, a high-speed chase, a DV call... but long story short, on several calls the dispatcher gave additional information from their computer system that was linked to the address based on prior calls. The info wasn't necessarily linked to a person.

    As an example we were forewarned on one call that "owner has large snakes". Nothing illegal about it, but as a snake owner I can appreciate that the local fuzz would want a heads-up in that there are mature BCC's and BCI's on the premises, or even a retic or burm...

    At any rate, that was 15 years ago. IT and database technology have made some tremendous strides since then, so who knows what the local agencies are sharing with each other today.
     
  7. Sam1911

    Sam1911 Moderator Emeritus

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    Dennis, re-read the OP's post. The driver was from Travis Co. Texas (there is no Travis Co. Florida), but in Florida when he was stopped. The FL officers called in his TX license, and the driver thought he overheard them getting information about his gun collection, supposedly info the TX sheriff had added to his entry.
     
  8. JustinJ

    JustinJ Member

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    My friend is insistent that he heard "class III weapons permit" but i agree that doesn't necessarily make it so. However, the term "Class III Weapons" is frequently used in reference to NFA weapons. Calling a tax stamp a permit is definitely odd but it does seem plausbile that an LE officer could mistakenly use that term. It interested me because my first silencer was done with a LE sign off by this same sheriff so i just wish there were a way to determine if my friend heard what he thought he heard.
     
  9. medalguy

    medalguy Member

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    I've lived in Texas nearly all my life (60 + years) and I've owned NFA items since, well, we'll say before 1968, and let it go at that, and I've been stopped a few times by various LEOs, never been asked anything about Class 3 items.

    Since I got my CHL I've always shown it except one time when a DPS trooper walked up to the car at a stop and very quickly said he wanted to see my license (only) so I gave him the license. Usually they ask for license and proof of insurance, but not this time. He walked back to his car, returned a minute later, and said their records showed I was a CHL holder, and did I have a firearm on me at that time. I said yes it was in an IWB holster, and he just said OK, slow it down a bit, and handed the DL back and left. So nothing about Class 3 I'm positive.
     
  10. NormB

    NormB Member

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    Couple years back, when I still owned a handful of subguns, we had occasion to have the county police come out to our home. Faulty ADT alarm, kid bringing a gun to school to threaten my son, minor stuff. What was odd was, one cop parked out front and came up to the house, the second one parked about fifty yards away on a side street, observing. I mentioned it to an acquaintance - Maryland State Police officer - and he said it was because I owned class III guns. Maryland has CLEO sign off - I didn't have a trust yet - and he told me they logged everything in the police computers and shared it with local law enforcement. Said it came up on the computer when they were dispatched. That's why they sent a second cop, as backup. I was stunned. Happened several times over the years I owned the guns, even when a neighbor called. Had another cop tell me the same story. Pretty weird. Time went by, I sold the last of my machineguns. Cops have come out once for a false alarm and once to take a report when a neighbor was burglarized. One cop, one car.

    This gets weirder.

    AFTER I sold all the machineguns I was at the Fulton MSP barracks getting fingerprinted for a suppressor purchase. I asked to go upstairs to make sure my record was cleared of all the MGs. Maryland has this annual reporting thing, and a ten dollar tax to record all the MGs you own. So I went upstairs, explained that I just wanted to make sure my record was clear so I could sleep with both eyes closed knowing I probably wouldn't be getting a 4AM flashbang wakeup sometime because I wasn't paying my ten dollars every year. The cop laughed, then told me my record was cleared of all MGs, but it did show 49 regulated firearms and he began reading off a list - in chronological order - from the first gun I bought in Maryland in 1996.

    Very interesting indeed. Every 77R (form for a "regulated firearm") that goes through the Maryland Staatspolizei (ahem, Geheime Staatspolizei?) is recorded, apparently.

    Linked to DL? How about your home address?
     
    Last edited: May 21, 2013
  11. Sam1911

    Sam1911 Moderator Emeritus

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    Yes, MARYLAND is indeed a prime, and frightening, example of the road we start down if we allow registration to get a foothold.

    But that doesn't explain the Texas & Florida incident at all.
     
  12. JustinJ

    JustinJ Member

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    I don't believe there is any law or mandate requiring that NFA items be linked to a DL in TX. It does however seem plausible that this Sheriff could be taking it upon himself to insert this information into whatever database is searched when an ID is run. I do know a city cop who i will ask the next time i see him so hopefully he may be able to clarify. I'll also check with the guys at one of my local Class III dealer shops the next time i'm in.
     
  13. tepin

    tepin Member

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    Just one more reason to do NFA stuff in Trust.
     
  14. BigBoyToyz

    BigBoyToyz Member

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    Describe the misunderstanding in detail.

    Cops may not keep a database of records but that doesnt mean they dont contact the people that do lol.
     
  15. hentown

    hentown Member

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    My first is still pending, and I did it as an individual. Have an LLC now, and the LLC has now bought my second suppressor. Dealer won't even receive suppressor for two months-or-so, so I'm at least 8 months out on that one.
     
  16. dprice3844444

    dprice3844444 member

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    nfa stuff is confidential income tax information
     
  17. medalguy

    medalguy Member

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    Yes it is. At least it should be. However we know that all tax information is always kept confidential now, don't we?
     
  18. JustinJ

    JustinJ Member

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    Says who? Possession of a tax stamp may not be public record but where does it say a CLEO is forbidden from revealing who he or she has signed for?
     
  19. waterhouse

    waterhouse Member

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    I run hundreds of licenses in Travis county a month. I have never once seen any note about NFA weapons.

    If returns are slow, I generally run my own name to see if the return is slow due to the system or due to the person I am running through the system. I own several NFA items, and there is no notation as such on my return. While I currently use a trust, several items are in my name an signed off by Sheriff Hamilton's (Travis county sheriff) office, so if they were putting NFA notations attached to DLs then I would have it.

    Texas concealed carry license is attached to your DL. I'm guessing this is what they were actually talking about and there was a misunderstanding.

    ETA: if your friend was listening to a handheld police radio attached to a cop standing a few feet away and a dispatcher said "concealed weapons permit" it would not surprise me if your friend misheard. My radio goes directly into my ear and it is difficult to understand sometimes. Also a common 10-code (which may or may not be used by whichever Florida dept was involved) is 10-43, which just means additional information. I commonly hear my dispatcher say "for 43, he has a weapons permit." Someone who recently filed NFA paperwork could easily mistake this radio traffic for "class 3 weapons permit."
     
    Last edited: May 30, 2013
  20. thorazine

    thorazine Member

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    That is kind of.. scary. :eek:
     
  21. monotonous_iterancy

    monotonous_iterancy Member

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    Wait, does MD have firearm registration? Wikipedia says they do for handguns, but not long guns. Did this list include long guns, or only handguns and NFA items?
     
  22. Sam1911

    Sam1911 Moderator Emeritus

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    Maryland does indeed keep records of purchases of all "Regulated Firearms." That's all handguns and quite a few semi-auto rifles. I have pals who have hundreds (more, actually) of entries in the MSP database.

    One of the technical issues is that there no effective updating so folks tend to discover that there are guns "on their record" that they sold decades ago.
     
  23. JShirley

    JShirley Administrator Staff Member

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    Maryland has "voluntary registration". There is no requirement to register firearms owned before you moved into the state, but ones purchased through FFLs in-state will be registered.
     
  24. jmorris

    jmorris Member

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    I am pretty sure they do not have any NFA information in Texas due to conversations I have had with different LEO's
     
  25. Jim K

    Jim K Member.

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    The last time a cop voluntarily deleted information about a citizen from police records was around 750 AUC. They never made that mistake again.

    Jim
     
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