NFA transfer question

[Gelgoog]

ok I just sent my form 1 paperwork out. Once I get the stamp back I intend to send my Krinkov parts out to be built. Question is if I already have the stamp can the builder send it to a regular FFL on transfer or does it have to go through a class 3 dealer?

My local class 3 is a complete <jerk> who charges $100 last time I checked for a transfer and has been know to shoot his customers weapons on transfer without their permission (one guy I know had his new suppressor completely shot to <deleted--Sam> when he finally picked it up). So I would like to avoid having to use this <guy> if possible.

 

[GoingQuiet]

Why would the builder send the gun to a regular FFL to be transferred again? That makes no sense.

Once the gun goes title 2 - it has to go through all NFA transfer processes just like anything NFA related.

Note: My lowest charge on a transfer is $100, there's a decent amount of work to do a transfer right.

 

[TexasRifleman]

Yeah I am confused. If you are doing a Form 1 YOU are the builder and there will be no transfer anyway. If you are having it built then there won't be a Form 1, there will be a Form 3.

So what exactly are you doing? By "builder" do you mean some gunsmith who will be assisting you in your role as manufacturer or what?

 

[Gelgoog]

Now I am completely confused.


edit: wait its a form 2 because its being manufactured? Is a form 1 only for the conversion of existing firearms?

I will have no hand in its construction, I intend to send it out of state to an experienced builder. That is unless if building it instate does not require a transfer then I might opt for that route.

 

[Sam1911]

Here's the list of forms relevant to NFA items:

ATF F 5320.1 (Form 1) — Application to Make and Register a Firearm
(If you're making it yourself.)

ATF F 5320.2 (Form 2) — Notice of Firearms Manufactured or Imported
(What an SOT2 sends to the ATF to tell them what guns they've made.)

ATF F 5320.3 (Form 3) — Application for Tax-Exempt Transfer of Firearm and Registration to Special Occupational Taxpayer (National Firearms Act)
(For transfers between SOT2 and SOT3 dealers.)

ATF F 5320.4 (Form 4) — Application for Tax Paid Transfer and Registration of a Firearm
(For transferring your gun from the dealer or maker to you.)

ATF F 5320.5 (Form 5) — Application for Tax Exempt Transfer and Registration of Firearm
(Transfer of an NFA weapon to you via inheritance.)

ATF F 5320.9 (Form 9) — Application and Permit for Permanent Exportation of Firearms

ATF F 5320.10 (Form 10) — Application For Registration of Firearms Acquired by Certain Government Entities
(How a police department or government agency gets its guns.)

ATF F 5320.20 — Application to Transport Interstate or to Temporarily Export Certain National Firearms Act (NFA) Firearms
(What you need to fill out to take your NFA guns to another state.)

 

[Bubbles]

Once I get the stamp back I intend to send my Krinkov parts out to be built. Question is if I already have the stamp can the builder send it to a regular FFL on transfer or does it have to go through a class 3 dealer?

From your post I'll infer that:
- You are listed on the Form 1 as the manufacturer of the Title II receiver (SBR?). Your name, city, and state are engraved on it as the manufacturer (this should be done prior to filing the Form 1).
- You have the receiver and a parts kit in-hand.
- The gunsmith who will be building it for you is only charging you for his labor.

If the above is true, then no, your Title II firearm does not have to be transferred to him through an SOT. You may ship a Title II firearm directly to any gunsmith for work whether or not he has an SOT, and he can then ship it directly back to you.

Be sure to make a copy of the first page of your Form 1, and write on the back the work that the gunsmith is being tasked to do for you. That way if he gets a compliance inspection while he has your firearm he has paperwork on it to cover himself.

 

[Gelgoog]

excellent! I was hoping that was the case.

 

[GoingQuiet]

Bear in mind that on a Form 1 build YOU are the manufacturer. NOT the gunsmith. I was told by ATF that I should take no part in building any Form 1 guns.

 

[springwalk]

most form 1 makers pretend to others they arent building while they wait for the stamp back from the ATF, but everyone knows they have their project done by the time the stamp is received. As for class 3 dealers charging a fee for paperwork I say "shun their business!" They have no need in charging $50 or $100 for 2 minutes of paperwork. They act as though you are taking away precious time from them prowling the internet for porn or pawning off some over priced junk to others. I have never paid a fee to any dealer and never will. Of course in return I dont mind paying retail price for a silencer providing I get good customer service.

 

[PTK]

most form 1 makers pretend to others they arent building while they wait for the stamp back from the ATF, but everyone knows they have their project done by the time the stamp is received.

Yeah, that doesn't make you seem suspicious at all or anything...

I, personally, don't even order parts/materials to make the F1 until the stamp has been approved, and never assemble anything until the stamp is received. To do otherwise is to break Federal law.

 

[Sam1911]

most form 1 makers pretend to others they arent building while they wait for the stamp back from the ATF, but everyone knows they have their project done by the time the stamp is received.

Wow. That's a dangerous thing to be doing. A little patience -vs.- a possible 10 year prison sentence. Hmmmm...

I think "most form 1 makers" are a LOT smarter than to be risking everything with such a stupid idea.

 

[GoingQuiet]

most form 1 makers pretend to others they arent building while they wait for the stamp back from the ATF, but everyone knows they have their project done by the time the stamp is received. As for class 3 dealers charging a fee for paperwork I say "shun their business!" They have no need in charging $50 or $100 for 2 minutes of paperwork. They act as though you are taking away precious time from them prowling the internet for porn or pawning off some over priced junk to others. I have never paid a fee to any dealer and never will. Of course in return I dont mind paying retail price for a silencer providing I get good customer service.

Could you elaborate here? I charge $100 for paperwork and I'd really like to know why folks sharing your mindset will shun my business.

 

[medalguy]

And what happens if your application is not approved for any reason (lost, denied, whatever) and you have completed the build, and BATF maybe hears about it and decides to drop in on you one day? What then?

In my opinion, this is a really, REALLY stupid thing to do!!

 

[Gelgoog]

I, personally, don't even order parts/materials to make the F1 until the stamp has been approved, and never assemble anything until the stamp is received. To do otherwise is to break Federal law.

its only constructive possession if you have all the materials to make the gun. If you are missing a few key parts especially the tools and machinery to do the work then its not illegal. Constructive possession only entails your ability to readily construct the weapon ( like popping two pins on an AR upper).

 

[PTK]

When you have someone, like me, that owns a lathe, ordering materials specifically for making a silencer isn't a great idea even if one doesn't start making the silencer in question. I err on the side of caution.

 

[UnknownGunMan]

most form 1 makers pretend to others they arent building while they wait for the stamp back from the ATF, but everyone knows they have their project done by the time the stamp is received. As for class 3 dealers charging a fee for paperwork I say "shun their business!" They have no need in charging $50 or $100 for 2 minutes of paperwork. They act as though you are taking away precious time from them prowling the internet for porn or pawning off some over priced junk to others. I have never paid a fee to any dealer and never will. Of course in return I dont mind paying retail price for a silencer providing I get good customer service.

They charge that fee for dealing with people like you... that call every few days "has my stamp come in?"... "Any word yet?"... "Can you call and check status?"... etc..etc..

When it comes to NFA dealings... that $100 to your dealer is pocket change...

 

[bsctov]

I can't believe some people are willing to quibble with Title 2 items while at the same time not even having the slightest clue as to which form they need to use or what it even entails.


Not trying to be a <deleted>, but honestly, do some research or contact an NFA attorney.


The penalties that come with a screw up in this area are severe and there are no do-overs.