NH: More Free Staters arrested in spat with Feds

[American By Blood]

The moonbats among the Free Staters (and in other movements) do us all a favor by highlighting history's lessons on waging effective campaigns for change.

If you want cultural change you must either take over extant entities of information dissemination or create viable competition.

If you want reform you have to "put on a suit and run for office" as another poster so eloquently put it.

If you want radical restructuring you have to pick up a bomb and a rifle.

There is no room for the left's outlandish street theatre in any of these scenarios. It doesn't raise funds all that well, sway votes, attract recruits, or cause damage/casualties to one's enemies. All it does is waste resources and force activists to exist in a legal grey-area where they risk arrest without causing the sort of disruption that far more serious illegal activity would.

 

[DigitalWarrior]

Street Theater

There is no room for the left's outlandish street theatre in any of these scenarios. It doesn't raise funds all that well, sway votes, attract recruits, or cause damage/casualties to one's enemies. All it does is waste resources and force activists to exist in a legal grey-area where they risk arrest without causing the sort of disruption that far more serious illegal activity would.

I believe that you are wrong.

The point of "street theater" is to raise awareness of an issue by gaining attention in the mainstream press. If I, Mr. Schmuckatelli, attempt to run for office with a platform of "REAL_ID is ineffective and costly, to both our finances and liberties", few people will listen to my message. If I have nude people walking around with signs like "I support REAL-ID, I have nothing to hide", "What's wrong with the government knowing everything about me?", etc. It gets on the news. It holds one's attention. It also gets participants arrested.

The moonbats actually serve an extremely useful purpose! Would the AW ban have ever passed, if no one was calling for the ban of all semi-auto, center-fire rifles? Heck no! The AW ban was a compromise between the NRA and the ban-em-alls. Moonbats make the moderate reformers sound more legitimate. MLK was empowered by Malcom X's militant rhetoric.

|) \/\/

The point is not disruption, if it were, very different tactics would be used.

 

[DadaOrwell2]

TheDigital wrote:

<<I am a Granite Stater who had the grave misfortune to be born elsewhere, then get a great job in CA. But I found a job and will be coming home in a few months. >>

Woo hoo! Can't wait till you get here! Drop by NHfree.com and announce your move date to the forum calendar if you like, some of our guys will help you move in. We had 50 people show up for a moving party a while back, but that was kinda unusual.

 

[Phetro]

There's always "one guy" with an anti-America sign whenever you guys gather, how come these clowns aren't on anybody else's email list ?

Huh? "...you guys..." Apparently you missed where I live. Look a little to the left of this post--I'm nowhere near New Hampshire, and have never been affiliated with the Free State Project. I merely support them as a whole (read: not necessarily as individuals!) because some would-be tyrants want to stigmatize them, marginalize them, and intimidate them into leaving by making them feel unwanted. Hey, even leftist moonbats have the right to move to a new state, and they sure have a right to get active politically once there. Why then are Libertarians supposed to not have this right--or more especially not act upon it?

Regardless, the Libertarians actually want to flood the country with illegal alien invaders, and give full amnesty to the ones already here. I'll never support their ideology, though I will always stand up for their rights as fervently as I would my own. (But the America First Party...now there's a great group!)

 

[Glock Glockler]

Digital Warrior,

You obviously don't know very much about the NH charachter, we don't like stupid moonbats who parade naked holding signs, that's not what we're about. We want people that will speak to us like adults and tell it like it is. By actually taking the time to explain to us why Real ID is bad you will earn our respect even if we don't necessarily agree with you, parading around like a Berkley college student gets from us neither agreement or respect.

I have worked in sales for a number of years with people in various parts of the country and there is something that stands out about people from northern New England, some people misinterpret it as a form of rudeness, but there is a distinct lack of bs as we want people to get to the point and we generally work only with people whom we are comfortable with. We need to get to know someone quite a bit before we feel comfortable doing business with them, we don't have to necessarily like them but we want to know them.

You might think the moonbat thing is effective, and it is, but it's only effective in making the idiots doing it feel cool about themselves. Your average NH person doesnt want to see people come in from out of state and start raising a fuss about seceeding, all you do is create a barrier between yourself and the people by doing that.

Would the AW ban have ever passed, if no one was calling for the ban of all semi-auto, center-fire rifles?

Uh, the left is very skilled at political warfare, anti-WTO moonbat protesters aside, and they have major media outlets to channel their emotional 'winning of hearts" campaign through. There is a helluva lot the left does that is very effective, if you think they got the "Assault weapon" ban passed only because there were a few loonies like Rosie O'Donnell screaming for every last bullet to be banned you are very much mistaken.

 

[DigitalWarrior]

Glock,
Perhaps you are right about me not understanding NH character yet. I might have been in California too long, where insanity is reasonable. I certainly respect and even prefer the more rational approach, and cannot wait to live in a place where it is effective. However, effect is critical.

I do want to say that I never claimed that it was only because of moonbats that the AW ban got passed, but I do think that it was a necessary factor. It made banning a few objects that looked a certain way seem rational and reasonable by comparison.

 

[Glock Glockler]

It made banning a few objects that looked a certain way seem rational and reasonable by comparison

This is true, but the other side also did a damn good job of selling the middle ground as the "reasonable and common sense" alternative.

The FSP is one of the best opportunities I see to make a difference in the country and I see it being tragically squandered. Looking at the whole thing from a sales point of view, if these stunts turn off the average NH person then they are counterproductive and should be stopped. The reason for the parading and stunts, like the Nazi concentration camp thing at the Read ID protest, is because it is far easier for most FSP people to do that than it is for them to actually sell the idea of freedom. Selling freedom means developing relationships with locals before shoving politics down their throats, and many libertarians I know actually loathe dealing with people more than anything. Getting comfortable at relating and interacting with others is key for the FSP's success and it will accomplish 1000x more than the current tactics. The question is whether people in the FSP want to accomplish political change or if they want to feel good about themselves.

 

[yucaipa]

Huh? "...you guys..." Apparently you missed where I live. Look a little to the left of this post--I'm nowhere near New Hampshire, and have never been affiliated with the Free State Project.

I should have typed "them guys"

because some would-be tyrants want to stigmatize them, marginalize them, and intimidate them into leaving by making them feel unwanted.

I didn't feel I was doing any of that, just using my 1A right to say 'that guy' was engaged in anti-America activity. It's OK to challenge someone who is threating your country and way of live.

As far as I'm concerned the only difference between 'that guy' with the succession sign and 'that guy' in the cave saying "death to America" is one of them most likely speaks better English.

If I were King of a day I'd put a 45 in both their ears.

Hey, even leftist moonbats have the right to move to a new state, and they sure have a right to get active politically once there. Why then are Libertarians supposed to not have this right--or more especially not act upon it?

Yes, everybody does.

 

[DigitalWarrior]

Glock

I used to be very heavily involved with the FSP. There are reasons I no longer am, and there are some similarities to yours. However I still support the goal of the project, and think that the results will be good. I also agree wholeheartedly that "Selling freedom means developing relationships with locals." I look forward to doing so.

Right now there are four hundred FSPers in NH. The theatre protests are almost all cenetered around Kat Dillon and Russell Kanning. I respect both of them. That means that there are three hundred and ninety some who are on your side and not generating what you consider to be negative publicity. I would like to ask that you consider that while you decide your feelings on the FSP.

I never would have thought of moving to NH if it had not been for the FSP, and no matter what happens to them, I will be coming home. Face it, NH rocks!

 

[Phetro]

I didn't feel I was doing any of that, just using my 1A right to say 'that guy' was engaged in anti-America activity. It's OK to challenge someone who is threating your country and way of live.

Hey, I totally agree.

As far as I'm concerned the only difference between 'that guy' with the succession sign and 'that guy' in the cave saying "death to America" is one of them most likely speaks better English.

Someone who wants a state to secede is equal to someone who wants to kill the entire American populace? I don't understand.

If I were King of a day I'd put a 45 in both their ears.

You would shoot an American citizen for exercising his First Amendment rights in speaking about secession? Lincoln would have loved you...seriously though, are you kidding?

 

[DigitalWarrior]

I wasn't going to say anything, but to hell with it, DOGPILE!!!

I didn't feel I was doing any of that, just using my 1A right to say 'that guy' was engaged in anti-America activity. It's OK to challenge someone who is threating your country and way of live.

As far as I'm concerned the only difference between 'that guy' with the succession sign and 'that guy' in the cave saying "death to America" is one of them most likely speaks better English.

If I were King of a day I'd put a 45 in both their ears.

Dissent is a patriot's duty. Jefferson advocated frequent rebellions. So tell me, what is this anti-American activity?

You said that one of them speaks better English. Whenever you mention "better English" you should do your best not to say succession when you mean secession. King of a day vs. King for a day. I am assuming you meant "I would put a 45 in the ear of each of them" too.

Would you have put a 45 in President Jefferson's ear?

Nothing personal, I just wanted to point that out.

 

[yucaipa]

Someone who wants a state to secede is equal to someone who wants to kill the entire American populace? I don't understand.

They both want the same thing in the end, the overthrow of the US Government. One wants to overthrow the whole USG., One wants to overthrow it in NH.

You would shoot an American citizen for exercising his First Amendment rights in speaking about secession? Lincoln would have loved you...seriously though, are you kidding

For exercising his 1A rights no, for advocating the overthrow of any part of America yes.

You're right Lincoln would of loved me, because I would have been wearing a blue uniform in that war, just like everybody in NH did.

Dissent is a patriot's duty. Jefferson advocated frequent rebellions. So tell me, what is this anti-American activity?

Dissent is everybody's duty, treasonous behavior is not, if you aren't capable on being intellectually honest enough with yourself to see the difference than so be it.

You said that one of them speaks better English. Whenever you mention "better English" you should do your best not to say succession when you mean secession. King of a day vs. King for a day. I am assuming you meant "I would put a 45 in the ear of each of them" too.

When your position becomes so weak that you have to pick up the clicker and change the channel in order to have a defensibly position, I rest my case.

I apology if you find the level of my communication skills lacking.





[/QUOTE]

 

[DigitalWarrior]

yucaipa:
Dissent is everybody's duty, treasonous behavior is not, if you aren't capable on being intellectually honest enough with yourself to see the difference than so be it.

Difference: Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying war against them, or in adhering to their enemies, giving them aid and comfort. And providing them with Aid and Comfort means SUPPLIES.

Question: Would you have had Jefferson executed?

 

[twency]

Ok, I admit I'm responding to an old post here, but re: the Bush upside-down book pic, it's a Photoshop hoax. Please see http://www.snopes.com/photos/bushbook.asp

-twency