NH: Free Staters kill statewide smoking ban

[DadaOrwell2]

Wolfies:

your thoughts?

From NHfree.com
5/15/06

New Hampshire's Free Staters kill smoke ban

Acting nearly alone against the American Cancer Society and a massive juggernaut of established lobby groups, a few dozen Free State Project members have managed to preserve New Hampshire's hands-off approach to smoking in bars and restaurants. N.H. is currently the only state in New England which allows consumers and businesses to make the "smoking decision" for themselves, and last month's vote assures that the market - rather than state regs - will determine smoking policies in 2007.

While Free Staters have been on the winning side of many lobbying efforts in Concord, this victory for property rights is significant, because it's virtually certain things would have gone the other way were it not for the Free Stater immigration.

Since the Free State Project targeted New Hampshire for libertarian migration in 2003, about 150 hardcore freedom activists have trickled into the state, aiming to preserve its Live Free or Die culture and roll back government there to a third of its present size. Aided by the state's predisposition toward liberty and their own relentless involvement, these incoming activists had already achieved an impact completely out of proportion to their numbers.

But past Free Stater victories involved alliances with other groups such as gun rights organizations and homeschoolers. This is the first they have won on their own, with only the pro-liberty legislators as allies.

And it was a close fought battle. With the rest of New England now under the thrall of smoking bans, many of the state's traditional ban opponents (such as restaurant and bar owners) switched sides, leaving the novice liberty activists holding the line nearly unassisted. Libertarian volunteer-lobbyists were outnumbered about three to one in the hallways and hearing rooms, losing on this issue in the House of Representatives, lacking support from the governor and winning in the Senate by only a single vote. To become law, a New Hampshire bill must pass all three elected branches.

Narrow or not, the victory changes the course of New Hampshire history a bit, and for the first time ever, Free Staters can say they did it virtually alone.

May 14 article in the Concord Monitor:

http://www.concordmonitor.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060514/REPOSITORY/605140337/1265/48HOURS

 

[Mongo the Mutterer]

Live Free or Die...
good on the Free Staters...

 

[Frandy]

Yes, they did...and...

Article published May 14, 2006

Smoking on non?
Even without a law, local restaurants are snuffing out cigarettes
By LISA ARSENAULT
Monitor staff


At the Red Blazer in Concord, manager Mike Patten says the restaurant is going smoke-free because of the health risks. At Penuche's Ale House downtown, manager Matthew Audet says it's because too many customers were leaving the basement bar with burning, itching eyes. And aboard the M/S Mount Washington cruise ship, Capt. Jim Morash says it's because tourists on deck don't want to sightsee through a smoke-screen.

For all three, the decision to go smoke-free has been looming for years, and the buzz over a possible statewide smoking ban was the last straw.

The ban was rejected by the Legislature last month, but business owners say the publicity garnered by the debate has prompted many restaurants and bars to nix cigarettes. Those who opposed the ban say the smoke-free movement proves the state didn't need the ban. Supporters say it proves the Legislature ignored the wishes of the majority in rejecting the ban.

"Now that everyone is talking about it, it's a perfect time to do it,"said Audet, whose bar goes smoke-free the first week of July. "As long as everyone does it - at least the majority - it won't have that much impact on business."

The way Barley House owner Brian Shea sees it, everybody wins.

"This way New Hampshire gets to keep their 'Live Free or Die' philosophy, and we all benefit because the momentum is there that we need to go smoke-free," he said. "The way I look at it, this kind of worked out okay."
Shea's downtown Concord restaurant and bar goes smoke-free July 4.

The smoking ban passed the House in March, 189-156, but was rejected by the Senate a month later by one vote. A University of New Hampshire Survey Center poll before the votes found that 79 percent of state residents support a smoking ban, and ban supporters estimated that 60 percent of New Hampshire restaurants had already gone smoke-free. But a group of Senate Republicans said they would not support the ban because it went against the state's "Live Free or Die" ethos.

In Concord, an informal survey done by the Monitor just before the Senate vote found that of 79 bars and restaurants in the city, only 24 allow smoking, mostly in designated areas or lounges. Since the ban failed, at least five more have decided to go smoke-free.

Michelline Dufort, president of the New Hampshire Lodging and Restaurant Association, said Concord is one of many communities in the state where "pockets" of restaurant leaders are getting together to go smoke-free.

"This says to us that our members do know their own business better than anyone," Dufort said. "They're responding to what they think the marketplace will bear."

The Lodging and Restaurant Association opposed the smoking ban in years past, but this session the organization chose not to take a stand. It has more than 700 members in the state whose opinions vary, Dufort said. The wave of businesses going smoke-free despite the ban's failure is a sign that business owners pay more attention to market forces than legislation, she said.

The Lakes Region is one pocket where restaurant-owners have banded together to go smoke free. The list includes The Galley, Fratello's Ristorante Italiano and the Water Street Café in Laconia. In Meredith, the owners of three competing restaurants - Giuseppe's Pizzeria & Ristorante, Hart's Turkey Farm Restaurant and Mame's Restaurant - went smoke-free on May 1.

Russ Hart, owner of Hart's Turkey Farm Restaurant in Meredith, said the decision was tough because of a "very loyal clientele that smokes." The restaurant has long had a separate dining room for smokers. Hart said if the Legislature had passed the ban, it would have made the decision easier, but teaming up with others has proved a good backup strategy.

John Cook, owner of Mame's Restaurant in Meredith, said all but two restaurants in town have gone smoke-free.

"I'm just happy now to see a larger number of businesses are choosing to do what the Legislature would not do," he said. "The failed effort has pushed people over the edge."

Not everyone is jumping on the smoke free bandwagon. Some restaurant and bar owners say they will never ban smoking by choice.

Louis Smirnioudis of The Windmill Family Restaurant in Concord is one of those adamant owners.

"When they leave it up to me, I'm going to try hard to keep everyone happy," Smirnioudis said. "They (smokers) got rights too. They pay the same taxes we do."

Smirnioudis quit smoking himself 12 years ago. Instead of making his restaurant smoke free, Smirnioudis said he plans to remodel his restaurant so that the smoking section is a separate room.

Keegan Bennett, manager of The Green Martini and Arizona Restaurant in Concord, said his establishment won't be going smoke-free, either. He said customers who want to smoke can go in the bar and customers who don't can stay in the smoke-free restaurant, which are separate.

"If the state makes us, then it's out of our hands," he said. "Until then, there's no reason for us to do anything."

Tim Sink, president of the Greater Concord Chamber of Commerce, said he believes that leaving it up to the owner is the right thing to do.

"This is the way it should have happened in the first place," he said. "It doesn't need to be legislated. The market will figure it out."

(Lisa Arsenault can be reached at 224-5301, ext. 373, or by e-mail at [email protected].)

------ End of article

By LISA ARSENAULT
Monitor staff

 

[ArmedBear]

Good job, Free Staters!

 

[Thefabulousfink]

I don't think the Free Staters cared wether smoking was allowed, just that it was the dicision of the people not the government. If all the retaurants and bars in NH decide to prohibit smoking, I would still be allowed to move there and open up a smokey bar. It might not do well and I may have to close it in less than a year, but it would be perfectly legal.

Now THAT'S Freedom.

 

[mountainclmbr]

I always thought Wyoming would make a better Free State. Good for the Free Staters though.

 

[Erebus]

Way to go!!

There should be no laws banning smoking anywhere except maybe places like gas stations.

If the state wants to adopt a signage format for a bar/restaurant owner to identify if *HE/SHE* wants to allow smoking in *HIS/HER* establishment I'm fine with that. Something clear like an image of a cigarette on a red or green background that the business owner can display so people don't have to guess. I can live with that. But the decision should be the owners' and no one elses. It's your choice wether you take your business to his establishment based on your personal preference. IF you are afraid to get cancer go to a restaurant with a red sign.

These blanket bans have to go. And I was never a smoker BTW. I'm actually allergic to smoke but don't "police" my friends about it. It's my allergy, I deal with it and I don't try to use it to push other people around. I know people who do and I don't like it.

 

[Khornet]

That's why

when planning to move back home to NEw England, I only considered one state, the only one which hasn't become a People's Republic....New Hampshire.

 

[Just_a_dude_with_a_gun]

Good! This ^^ how it's supposed to be done.

Go ahead. make your bar smoke free. You will lose money when others
build an acceptable smoke free section in their bar, that caters to ALL,
and allows everyone to choose.

'Banning' things that are not illegal is ludicrous, and always will be.

 

[Manedwolf]

Go ahead. make your bar smoke free. You will lose money when others
build an acceptable smoke free section in their bar, that caters to ALL,
and allows everyone to choose.

Actually, I and everyone I know ONLY go to smoke-free establishments, because the smoke still carries over, and to a nonsmoker, it stinks like rancid old ashtrays...so do the smokers.

But it IS up to individual businesses to decide.

You wanna stick a cancer-stick in your face, that's your right in your home, and it's a business owner's right to decide if they want to or do not want to let you in their place of business. Just don't expect all businesses to let you, don't expect you deserve the same health insurance rates as nonsmokers, and for HEAVEN'S SAKE PUT THE FREAKING BUTTS IN AN ASHTRAY, not on the GROUND and NOT out the car window at highway speed!

 

[AlaskaErik]

I always thought Wyoming would make a better Free State. Good for the Free Staters though.

One of the requirements was that it be a maritime state. People-wise, Wyoming would have been a better choice.

 

[Phetro]

Businesses, never laws, should determine who can and cannot smoke where and when.

I have stopped patronizing "smoke free" bars and restaurants, and urge others to do the same, simply because: if they don't respect your rights, what matters the object of their scorn? I rarely smoke...but I never go a moment without demanding freedom.

You wanna stick a cancer-stick in your face, that's your right in your home, and it's a business owner's right to decide if they want to or do not want to let you in their place of business. Just don't expect all businesses to let you, don't expect you deserve the same health insurance rates as nonsmokers, and for HEAVEN'S SAKE PUT THE FREAKING BUTTS IN AN ASHTRAY, not on the GROUND and NOT out the car window at highway speed!

But I think tonight, after reading this, that I will start smoking often, even in my car (I never have)...and throwing the cigarettes out the window. Because FOR HEAVEN'S SAKE DO-GOODER BUSYBODIES SHOULD NEVER HAVE THEIR WAY!

 

[Manedwolf]

But I think tonight, after reading this, that I will start smoking often, even in my car (I never have)...and throwing the cigarettes out the window. Because FOR HEAVEN'S SAKE DO-GOODER BUSYBODIES SHOULD NEVER HAVE THEIR WAY!

Maybe said "do good busybodies" just don't enjoy having a thrown cigarette explode in a spray of sparks all over their polished hood or even more startlingly against their windshield, and are unable, by law, to respond with even a nonlethal return assault.

 

[Car Knocker]

I have stopped patronizing "smoke free" bars and restaurants, and urge others to do the same, simply because: if they don't respect your rights, what matters the object of their scorn?

Sorry, but no thanks. I have just as much right to breathe air that isn't tinged with someone's smoke. I'm not saying that people can't smoke, I'm just saying that *I* don't want to, first or secondhand. I'll patronize places where it isn't an issue.

 

[Phetro]

Sorry, but no thanks. I have just as much right to breathe air that isn't tinged with someone's smoke. I'm not saying that people can't smoke, I'm just saying that *I* don't want to, first or secondhand. I'll patronize places where it isn't an issue.

That's great! Then you and I will both be happily patronizing places that cater to our respective needs, and keeping our money away from those that don't. And each business will make money. Everyone wins.

Maybe said "do good busybodies" just don't enjoy having a thrown cigarette explode in a spray of sparks all over their polished hood or even more startlingly against their windshield, and are unable, by law, to respond with even a nonlethal return assault.

If a cigarette butt startles you, you probably shouldn't be on the road at all. You could hit a child someday because you were startled by something insignificant to another, more qualified, driver! And if it saves just one life...

 

[Mongo the Mutterer]

Manedwolf: "Maybe said "do good busybodies" just don't enjoy having a thrown cigarette explode in a spray of sparks all over their polished hood or even more startlingly against their windshield, and are unable, by law, to respond with even a nonlethal return assault."

I agree, and someone VERY close to me has that habit. I hate it, but it is her deal.

Everyone has a peeve though. My pet one is people who drive Eastbound every day in on a due East/West highway in STL who:

1. don't wash their windshields, ever

and/or

2. don't wear sunglasses in the blinding morning sun.

and as a result... slow the highway to a crawl while they try to see...

 

[Zundfolge]

Maybe said "do good busybodies" just don't enjoy having a thrown cigarette explode in a spray of sparks all over their polished hood or even more startlingly against their windshield, and are unable, by law, to respond with even a nonlethal return assault.

Someone needs to save the red herring for their cat

Thats the same foolish argument as saying that we need to outlaw handgun ownership because the "do good busybodies" are tired of being mugged by handgun toting criminals.

The libertarian ideal is that you punish people for their actual misdeeds, not use the law to exercise prior restraint to prevent them from maybe doing something "bad".

There would be nothing outside the realm of libertarian thought to say that it could be made illegal to flip your butt out the car window (which is illegal here in Colorado ... especially during fire season) and I bet that could fall under the heading of "littering" which no libertarian wants to make legal.

 

[Keaner]

for HEAVEN'S SAKE PUT THE FREAKING BUTTS IN AN ASHTRAY, not on the GROUND and NOT out the car window at highway speed!

Aint that the truth! The car I drive is very low to the ground, and I routinely get butts into the air-intake of my car. I have already replaced the filter once(At 70 bucks a pop!), because a still lit butt burned a hole through it.

 

[Aguila Blanca]

NH's new state motto:

"Live free and die of second-hand smoke"

Brilliant :banghead:

 

[mordechaianiliewicz]

I don't think the Free Staters cared wether smoking was allowed, just that it was the dicision of the people not the government. If all the retaurants and bars in NH decide to prohibit smoking, I would still be allowed to move there and open up a smokey bar. It might not do well and I may have to close it in less than a year, but it would be perfectly legal.

~fabulous fink

I very mush agree! It is about state level legislative groups trying to trample rights in the name of all citizens when not all citizens want a smoking ban.

As was posted elsewhere, in many bars and restaurants in New Hapshire you can't smoke, in some you obviously can, that is an example of a free market meeting the demands of two different kinds of customers. Wow! Never thought it'd work! BRILLIANT!

 

[Soybomb]

Keep up the good work new hampshire, at least one state is making some progress.

 

[Justin]

NH's new state motto:

"Live free and die of second-hand smoke"

Brilliant

I will now duplicate my sig line:

Smoking is healthier than Fascism!
-Slogan on a tshirt available from Bureaucrash

I cannot believe that someone who is a member of the most maligned American sub-culture could possibly not have at least a passing understanding of basic property rights.

 

[Standing Wolf]

If you want my dollars in your restaurant or bar, you'll have to provide an ash tray.

 

[Hal]

NH's new state motto:

"Live free and die of second-hand smoke"

Brilliant

Even more *brilliant* is not bothering to use the old gray matter and find out the real truth....

The dangers of S/H smoke are a fabrication of the EPA, not scientific fact.

The only scientific *fact* the EPA study of S/H smoke concluded was that:
- Non smoking children of smokers have a lower incidence of cancer than non- smoking children of non-smokers.

Since the findings of the study were published before the study had been completed though, that little fact was left out.


Ya know whats worse tha a vast conspiricy?
A vast agenda....

HEAVEN'S SAKE PUT THE FREAKING BUTTS IN AN ASHTRAY, not on the GROUND and NOT out the car window at highway speed!

Dude, no problem....well...one little problem....ashtrays aren't PC anymore.
I'll be happy to use one - - if the things existed!
Next time you're out and about check out the smokers. There's a whole lot of us that look high and low for an ashtry to snuff our butts before resorting to tossing them on the ground.
Out the window?
Well one reason I use the window is the hit I take these days at trade in time.
Seriously - last time I traded my Accord, one dealer knocked off 3 grand because it "smelled like smoke".


Anyhow good on NH.

 

[Model520Fan]

If the state wants to adopt a signage format for a bar/restaurant owner to identify if *HE/SHE* wants to allow smoking in *HIS/HER* establishment I'm fine with that. Something clear like an image of a cigarette on a red or green background that the business owner can display so people don't have to guess. I can live with that. But the decision should be the owners' and no one elses. It's your choice wether you take your business to his establishment based on your personal preference.

Well, these days my personal preference is to stay away from restaurants where the owners and food handlers are he/shes. Try putting that one on a sign (it has been done).