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NH: Vid of my latest open carry incident

Discussion in 'Activism Discussion and Planning' started by DadaOrwell2, Aug 6, 2007.

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  1. ScottS

    ScottS Member

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    This varies by state, according to state law. Some states allow "1 party recording," that is, if one party to the conversation consents to the recording, it is legal to do so. Some states require both parties to be aware of/consent to the recording for it to be legal.

    If you recall, Linda Tripp got into hot water when she recorded her conversations with Sword-Swallower Monica, because she did so in Maryland (two party state) and not Virginia (one party state).
     
  2. brerrabbit

    brerrabbit Member

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    The first argument for recording police involves a simple doctrine. They are public officials with no expectation of privacy. Current USSC decisions pretty much state the same. If the LEO in the audience do not like the fact, find another line of employment.

    The second argument is the first amendment. This provides for freedom of the press. A video recording of police engaged in activity not protected by law is sometimes a newsworth event. Considering how easy it is to freelance material to a news network, freedom of the press has been expanded upon in the last 30 years. Thus any recorder of material pretty much has the same protections as a reporter for a major news network, especially if they have provided news to a network that a court considers a news source in the past.
     
  3. joab

    joab Member

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    Are you for real or just stirring the pot

    Think about this just a little and apply my pit bull comment

    Suppose the man legally walking his leashed Pit Bull decides to unleash him on a group of school children after the police were called, anyone going to blame the cops
    Are the police to blame for not responding to a non crime?
    Now put that together with Sistema's verifiable true comment and what do we have
    Where I live the police do not routinely respond to non crimes

    I see kids on their way to the park every day carrying baseball bats
    Ten bucks says the police would not respond if I called them to say that there was a group of kids over at the baseball diamond carrying what looks like big sticks

    Also where the two of us live open carry is illegal so the cops would certainly have the right to detain and question us, we would also be legally arrested for the offense

    Well how damn dare he walk down the street like a citizen committing no crime, when he is in fact flaunting the fact that he is committing no crime.
     
    Last edited: Aug 10, 2007
  4. IA_farmboy

    IA_farmboy Member

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    For those looking for a number to call to record your conversation with a LEO I have one for y'all...

    911

    I do believe that number is staffed 24/7 with people that automatically record all calls they receive. I haven't tried the service myself but I do believe they answer the phone right quick.
     
  5. error

    error Member

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    As the person who created the Porc-411 recording system, I have a few observations to make and a few details to share, especially as several people here are basing their opinions on misunderstanding or misinformation.

    First, as best we can tell, there were no 911 or other emergency calls made as a result of Dave attempting to walk 50 yards north on Elm Street to his destination, the building with the large windows which is visible in some of the scenes in the video.

    Second, it was not a Manchester police officer who stopped Dave, but a state trooper. As best we can tell, he was eastbound on Auburn Street, happened to see Dave and turned south onto Elm. Dave's crossdraw holster would not have been easily visible from Elm Street as he walked northbound, but could be seen easily by someone eastbound on Auburn approaching Elm.

    During the stop, as best we can tell, the trooper called in Manchester PD. "Four calls," as far as I know, is misleading. There may have been four calls between various LEOs, but it's highly doubtful there were four 911 calls. And even if there were, a state trooper would not normally respond to a 911 call within the city, especially near downtown where local police pass by frequently.

    My personal opinion, based on my personal knowledge of the events, the original audio and video recordings, and my interviews with the people present, is that Dave did nothing whatsoever to provoke the incident; the state trooper did by making a legally dubious stop. He is quite correct to say, though, that we are quite prepared to defend our rights, and we have assembled a number of tools to assist with such defense.

    One of those tools is Porc-411. It's an automated recording system whereby you call and can leave a message of unlimited duration. The message is recorded to a compressed audio file which is then e-mailed out to a mailing list, most of whom are here in New Hampshire (there are 3 or 4 reporters from out of state who are subscribed).

    The videographer, who has been recording Free State Project activities for several months now, mixed this recording with the audio from his camera in order to provide better sound coverage, though as you may have heard, it's hard to get good audio off a cell phone.

    I don't think a "national" number similar to this would work, simply because too many of the calls which would come in on it would be for events taking place far away from most of the subscribers. If you live in Florida, hearing immediately about something going on in Utah doesn't do you a whole lot of good, since you can't respond by traveling to the scene.

    It works as a statewide number in New Hampshire since the state is fairly small, but for most of the rest of the country, I think a series of numbers, each for a particular region, would be a lot more effective, since people would actually have a chance of being able to make a meaningful response to whatever happens to be going on.
     
  6. kingpin008

    kingpin008 Member

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    Yea, unless they're taking a nap:

    http://www.kirotv.com/news/4329110/detail.html

    http://www.kirotv.com/news/3618760/detail.html

    Or the signals get screwed up:

    http://hematite.com/dragon/die911.html

    http://www.wpxi.com/news/10292983/detail.html

    But sure - that's hardly ever going to happen. The system is COMPLETELY reliable and all we need should an emergency present itself.:barf::rolleyes::barf:
     
  7. JaxNovice

    JaxNovice member

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    I am jumping in here a little late in the game. MY $.02 is that regardless if you feel you are right or wrong, you do what police officer tells you to do when he/she tells you to do it. You then file a complaint. I don't know you but from what I observed you tried to bait a confrontation, got a bite and then escalated it.
     
  8. DadaOrwell2

    DadaOrwell2 Member

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    <<Dada, do you think the FreeStaters would consider putting up a telephone line for the whole country... It could be useful.>>

    I don't like the idea of stretching ourselves beyond NH much....
    the whole idea is concentrating our efforts in a limited geographical area.

    Sure things will happen out of state which some of us get involved in. But if people want to really come under our umbrella they're going to need to move here
     
  9. DadaOrwell2

    DadaOrwell2 Member

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    << How does the call-in recording system work? Can we use it too? How would I set one up and how much would it cost to operate? >>

    contact "beavis" and "error" at forum.nhfree.com for details on setting one up.

    If we get out of state calls they will take lower priority, especially if we don't know you. but you can call from out of state sure. from out of state you can also subscribe to hear the calls....we're always in need of more people monitoring or transcribing the incoming calls...the more of those we have the faster our response time will be.

    bear in mind the rapid response this time was because people were watching from nearby, not because they got the 411 call. 411 just send to peoples' email; then it's usually 20 minutes or so before an emergency message ends up on forum.NHfree.com.

    We still have a ways to go before it's a full fledged citizen 911.....but it's a start.
     
  10. Sistema1927

    Sistema1927 Member

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    Are you for real?

    "Papers! Ah, Juden. Get in the train car. You can file a complaint later."

    "You there boy. We gonna put this rope around your neck. You can file a complaint later."

    "The Mayor didn't like your last editorial. Stand back while we smash your printing press. You can file a complaint later."

    Don't exercise your rights, and they will soon go away.
     
  11. Scorpiusdeus

    Scorpiusdeus member

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    So now Law Enforcement officers are akin to the Nazis and the KKK?

    Unreal. This tells me everything I need to know these "like minded" individuals.
     
  12. JaxNovice

    JaxNovice member

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    +1 scorp. Wow! he had some jump in logic.

    Bottom line is if you confront and engage police officers you will lose that engagement. You will end up in jail, getting your ass kicked or shot. Whether I am right or wrong I am not really interested in any of those options. If a cop asked me for my ID I would comply without any hesitation and deal with it in a civil manner later.

    Nazis and KKK give me break. Come back down to earth where the rest of us live.
     
  13. ScottS

    ScottS Member

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    Really? Did this guy "end up in jail" or "get his ass kicked or shot?" I'll have to watch the video again.

    The question is, "How far are you willing to be bent over?" Clearly you're willing to bend over a lot farther than the original poster.
     
  14. Scorpiusdeus

    Scorpiusdeus member

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    Providing your Identification to an officer of the law is being bent over?

    What it must be like to live in your little world. Do let us know how things are in the compound? Keep up the vigil for the Jackbooted soldiers of ZOG.
     
  15. Jared Stenoien

    Jared Stenoien Member

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    "So now Law Enforcement officers are akin to the Nazis and the KKK?

    Unreal. This tells me everything I need to know these "like minded" individuals."



    What it should tell you is that they responded to an extremist attitude with another extremist attitude, which shows the fallacy of the prior statement. It's called hyperbole and, while it should not be, it is a commonly used debating technique.
     
  16. JaxNovice

    JaxNovice member

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    Actually Scott I was not limiting myself to this one instance. It was a generalization.
     
  17. Sistema1927

    Sistema1927 Member

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    What I think that many of you are missing is the fact that"

    "Power corrupts, absolute power corrupts absolutely."

    What does it take for law enforcement officers to become like Nazi stormtroopers, or a Bull Conner, or a printing press smasher?

    Not much. It only takes a lack of vigilance on the part of free men who are constantly alert to abuses of power on the part of any official, elected, appointed, or hired. Our Founding Fathers recognized this, but many people today have become so blase that routine abuses of authority take place daily, and nobody bats an eye.

    Why should a free man be hassled for carrying a weapon? Why should any pedestrian have to produce identification when no crime has been committed? Why should we turn a blind eye when police officers overstep their authority? Why would any citizen defend abuse of power?

    Law Enforcement officers work for us. We ought to hold them accountable.
     
  18. Sistema1927

    Sistema1927 Member

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    No, you wouldn't deal with it in any fashion later. You have already conceded that the police have the right to make you accede to their every demand. "May your chains lay lightly on you."
     
    Last edited: Aug 10, 2007
  19. Scorpiusdeus

    Scorpiusdeus member

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    How you guys make the huge leap from allowing an officer to see your ID to the total enslavement of Americans is beyond me.

    How does an officer determine if a crime has been committed? He stops and asks questions.

    In this instance, he should have known better yes, but he didn't. It's called a mistake, not an abuse of authority. Again, I state that the OP never asked if he was free do go, and the officer never said he wasn't free to go. Am I wrong? I admit I may have missed it. Please point it out to me.

    If an officer walks up to me on the street and asks me some questions, even though I've committed no crime, is THAT an abuse of power?
     
  20. Orvanic

    Orvanic Member

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    Old 4X4 and others who live in NH,

    Let me ask you this little hypothetical...

    NH Legislation is proposed which would make openly carrying a firearm a crime. Do you support it?

    Hardly anyone chooses to open carry in NH anyway...right?
     
  21. kingpin008

    kingpin008 Member

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    Absolutely not. However, if I am detained in any way, or forced in any way to answer those questions or provide ID, then it very much IS an abuse of power.

    That's the point the commenters here are trying to make. If there is a reasonable cause for an officer to suspect ME of a specific crime, then I will agree wholeheartedly that I may be questioned in a reasonable manner in order to determine any involvement I may have. Otherwise, I deserve to be treated with respect, and not be expected to prove anything to the officer, including who I am and what I am legally able to do.
     
  22. Scorpiusdeus

    Scorpiusdeus member

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    So again I ask, was the original poster prevented from walking away? Did he ask if he was free to go? Did he just assume that he had to stay there, silly considering how aware he seems to be about his rights.
     
  23. redneckrepairs

    redneckrepairs Member

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    Well I saw Police officers interviewing an armed man on a city street ( not unreasonable IMHO in this day and age ) , I did not see the man being detained , or cuffed , or subjected to unreasonable police attention. IMHO the delays were caused by the OP and his buddy in the striped shirt . No one here was imho in the wrong or acting illegaly . The Officers had a duty to ascertain that an armed man headed to ( if i understood right ) a bar was not a public safety issue ( po'd hubby, disgruntled employee/patron ect. ) . The OP delayed this by his attitude and refusal to cooperate . Once this was established he was free to go . All concerned were within their rights/dutys and it worked out fine without incident, tho with an overabundance of drama .
     
  24. Sistema1927

    Sistema1927 Member

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    The officer had no such duty. This is another example of people here believing that "guilty until proven innocent" is acceptable.

    This thread has done something for me. It has shown me that the cause is lost. I mean, if participants on the internet's foremost firearms rights website don't respect the basic principles of liberty, what hope do we have with the "unwashed masses" of the electorate at large?
     
  25. Scorpiusdeus

    Scorpiusdeus member

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    So the officer did nothing wrong. The Original poster was not detained but chose of his own free will to stand there and speak with the officer.

    I think we're done here.
     
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