NIB 1911 SUCKS: Dryfire for a better trigger?

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dubious

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So I just got my new Springfield Loaded 1911 5" stainless. I've rented this exact gun at the range several times and they all shot like a dream. Some of the tightest groups of my life... 1.5" at 7 yards. My brand new 1911 shoots terribly. It's the heavy trigger. The trigger is glass rod breaking smooth, but HEAVY. I can do better with my sub compact 9mm taurus pt111 pro. So far I've run 50 rounds, then cleaned carefully, then 150 rounds, then cleaned carefully, then dryfired about 300x, then cleaned carefully, then dry fired some more.

My Plan: Dryfire the heck out of it so that the trigger gets worn properly. The 1911s at the range all have like 10k rounds through them and have great triggers. I'm sure they didn't bother with trigger jobs for the rental guns. I bought some snap caps, but its a huge pain to try to keep a snap cap from ejecting when I'm dry firing 100 times at a time. I'd rather just dry fire without snap caps. The springfield manual recommends dry firing for practice, but I'm dry firing to intentionally break it in. Am I doing the right thing?

An article I read on m1911.org says that dry firing is good and that if you have problems with gritty creep, you should press "forward" on the hammer and dry fire 10-20 times. I'm not exactly sure what they mean by "forward", but I tried pressing "forward" while the gun was cocked and pulling the trigger 20 times. I don't have a problem with grittiness in the trigger anyway, just HEAVY PULL. I've done about 500 - 1000 dryfires and I THINK... maybe... the pull is getting better. It still doesn't compare to my 10 year old used Ruger Redhawk... which I get 2" groups at 7 yards from.

Am I doing the right thing? Is there an easier way, short of paying a gunsmith $200?
 
Ya' know... When dry firing you don't have to cycle the slide, put the snap-cap in the chamber and thereafter simply cock the hammer.

I think a lot of that extra poundage in the trigger pull is caused by the lawyer-lock they have in the mainspring housing. Use the search feature and you should be alble to find a bunch of past threads explaining how to change the mainspring housing internals and the firing pin & spring to return the pistol to what John Browning did in the first place.

That trick of pushing on the back of the hammer is called "boosting," and it's met to burnnish the contact edges between the hammer hooks and sear nose. However I woundn't want to try in on a pistol that had a MIM hammer and sear. On USGI parts it worked fine, but USGI construction is a thing of the past... :banghead:
 
I think a lot of that extra poundage in the trigger pull is caused by the lawyer-lock they have in the mainspring housing.
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Really? I looked at a bunch of those ILS removal threads and they all say they did it for different reasons than trigger pull and no one mentions anything about their triggers being lighter afterwards. I understand the ILS is an annoying Rube Goldberg addition to John Browning's simple design. Does it REALLY increase the trigger pull by much?

Is dryfiring 10,000 times going to give me a nice trigger? This gun is new and nice for my moderately intelligent self to fully strip without some more experienced supervision. And I'm still not ready to plunk down ANOTHER $200 for a gun smith.

When dry firing you don't have to cycle the slide, put the snap-cap in the chamber and thereafter simply cock the hammer.
Click to expand...
Cycling the slide is much easier on my hands.

Or maybe I should just get out the dremel grinder? Don't worry, I'll go slow! :evil:
 
Dry firing will probably not reduce the weight of the trigger substantially. How much of a factor the ILS mainspring is in the trigger will vary from gun to gun, but if your trigger really is that poor then the hammer engagement is probably captive and you are partially cocking the hammer against the mainspring every time you pull the trigger.

If it were me the first thing I would do with a Springer is remove the ILS (replace with an S&A mag well) and replace the trigger group with a C&S drop in kit. Paint the sear nose and check for even engagement on both hooks. If you have it then great you are done. If not, then it is time to mail it some place like EGW.

I am not a stock 1911 type of guy and a little work will vastly increase the shootability of some stock guns.

When dry firing I cycle the slide so can ride the reset and practice reacquiring the target and resetting the trigger as if the gun recoiled.
 
Really? I understand the ILS is an annoying Rube Goldberg addition to John Browning's simple design.
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Easy to fix. Take off the main spring housing. Go to the garage and secure it in a vise. Find yerself a nice 1/8" punch and a 2lb hammer....you can probably figure out the rest. Safety glasses are recommended...the ILS on mine came rocketing out of there.
 
I can't see any way the Springfield lock in the mainspring housing can have any effect at all on the weight of the trigger pull.

All it does when locked is prevent the mainspring from being compressed by the hammer strut.

When it is unlocked, it doesn't even touch anything inside the housing, and once cocked, the spring follower is well below it, and isn't in any way changing it's normal operation.

I had replied earlier to a PM from dubious and suggested he get some Gun-Slick grease on the trigger, sear, and other internals, then dry-fire the snot out of it.

Other possibilities exist that may be causing the heavy trigger pull, including sear & hammer hook angles, spring strength, etc.
But this is not the place to give advice on how to do a match grade trigger job on a 1911 without him having sear jigs, trigger scales, etc..

For instance, he said his trigger is "HEAVY", but how heavy is it really?
4 - 4 1/2 pounds is about right on a brand new gun.
6 or 8 pounds is "HEAVY".

But we don't know what his actually is, so it's difficult to say what he needs to do about it.

Removing or Dremeling the passive safety in the mainspring housing is not one of them however.

rcmodel
 
The only before and after I know of on removing the superfluous parts from an ILS Springfield was about half a pound difference on the trigger pull. Probably due to use of a 20 instead of a 28 lb spring.

I have tried to wear in guns by dryfire (and live fire) but saw no real improvement in a couple thousand repetitions.

If you want a lighter trigger pull, you are just going to have to cough up the money and have it done right. Need not cost $200. Springfield charges $80 for a 4 lb trigger pull. If you can convince them that yours is grossly heavy, they might even do it on warranty.
 
i've heard of degreasing the internals and touching up corners and polishing engagement points with a triangular arkansas stone, or putting polishing compound in there and cycling/dryfiring. personally i don't like to kitchen table gunsmith expensive new guns.
 
6 or 8 pounds is "HEAVY".
Click to expand...

That's about right... I showed my gun range shop owner (who rents out identical SA 1911s with 10k+ rounds through them) and he said "OOOOF!".


I had replied earlier to a PM from dubious and suggested he get some Gun-Slick grease on the trigger, sear, and other internals, then dry-fire the snot out of it.
Click to expand...

I'll try to find some of this gun-slick stuff.

Don't worry I was just kidding about the dremel... like cyanide says:

personally i don't like to kitchen table gunsmith expensive new guns.
Click to expand...
 
The ILS MSH uses a different shorter mainspring that is 28 pounds and is more prone to effecting the trigger then a regular length mainspring.

I second the suggestion to call Springfield and complain and see what they offer.
 
the short mainspring that Springfield uses in the ILS is on the heavy side..also you sear spring is probably set heavy too..

if the trigger isn't gritty, but just heavy...the adjustments would be pretty easy if you are familiar with the 1911.
basically you would replace the hammer spring, and redo the sear spring, reassemble, do the safety checks and test fire..

if you are familiar..it would be worth the time and effort to have it done by someone that knows 1911s..
 
I can't see any way the Springfield lock in the mainspring housing can have any effect at all on the weight of the trigger pull.
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As mentioned, it isn't the lock, it's the 28# mainspring they use. In my experience, changing it to a 20# spring will only drop the trigger pull about 1/2 lb.

If the trigger breaks clean, adjusting the sear spring will make much more of a difference.
 
dubious, boosting the trigger by putting modest thumb pressure on the hammer and dry firing helps grittiness, not trigger pull.

The easiest things to do first would be to get a lighter main (hammer) spring and reducing tension on the sear spring.

I have seen improvements by replacing sears when the factory sear wasn't right. If you get lucky, a new one could help.

If those don't do it for you, you need to have sear/hammer work done to lighten the pull.
 
Another thing to check is the overtravel screw in the trigger. If it is adjusted right on the edge of no overtravel in the interest of a 'clean' break, it can take more pressure to release. Make sure you have a tiny bit of overtravel so the hammer releases cleanly.
 
+1
That for sure is the first thing to check.

If you don't want to dink with the adjustment to find out if that is the problem, just take the mag release out of the frame and try the trigger.

If that helps, put it back in and back off the trigger over-travel screw.

rcmodel
 
:banghead: Removing magazine catch group would be easier if this thing didn't have fancy torque screws on the grip! What's the deal with that?
 
Well... I've dry fired the snot out of it... about 1000 times and its definitely getting better. I'll keep at it.
 
I bet dry firing that much will improve your accuracy beyond any accuracy gained by lowering the trigger pull. You just have to get used to the feel of your new gun. If not, I suggest you save up for a trigger job.
 
fancy torque screws on the grip! What's the deal with that?
Click to expand...
I just noticed a new Kember with a socket-head in the mag release as well as the grips!

So much for all of old JB's brillent design work to make the gun it's own tool box! :rolleyes:

rcmodel
 
Well after a lot of dryfiring, I shot about 21 rounds and my groups are still pretty poor even with good concentration and a TON of dryfire practice. I can definitely get ragged hole groups with the identical guns at the range with identical ILS BS. I feel like this gun is just too tight.

I'm going to keep at it with the dryfiring, it's gotta help a little bit... but those range guns probably have worn away their mainsprings well short of 28lbs. I've ordered a new wolf 19lb mainspring and housing, as well as a variety pack of wilson recoil and firing pin springs. I'm going to be reloading a broad spectrum of .45acp, so I think the spring kit will be fun.

I'm just enjoying newbin' out on this new gun... with such a huge support base, I feel pretty confident I can get this thing shooting ragged holes soon.
 
I've ordered a new wolf 19lb mainspring and housing, as well as a variety pack of wilson recoil and firing pin springs. I'm going to be reloading a broad spectrum of .45acp, so I think the spring kit will be fun.
Click to expand...
You'll also need to order the MSH internals including the cap, and the cap retaining pin which the ILS doesn't have. The ILS mainspring cap is longer than a conventional one and they won't allow a standard spring to compress all the way. (Hmm, how did I find that out?) ;)
 
Wow.

Hey There:
Parts are parts. I have worn out dremmel tools on guns .
Polish the trigger bows. get a new lighter spring kit. And if need be a new hammer and sear. Mine is 3.5 lbs.
I don't remember a factory gun other then my King Cobra that I did not have to work on to get it the way I wanted it.
 
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