seeking_coyotes
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What is the difference between regular and nickel plated brass?
nickel Plated Brass
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I'm not an expert, but I have seen the answer to this one before.
The difference besides the obvious color difference, is negligible when it comes to reloading. They reload the same way as regular brass, however some say it does not survive as many loading, and wears out faster.
The difference besides the obvious color difference, is negligible when it comes to reloading. They reload the same way as regular brass, however some say it does not survive as many loading, and wears out faster.
ReloaderFred
Member
Both are brass. The nickel plating is applied for two purposes. The first was years ago when cartridges were carried in leather belt loops. The nickel plating prevented vertigris from forming on the brass and eating through it. That's the green slime that forms when the chemicals used to tan the leather come in contact with brass.
The second reason is more recent. Some manufacturers will nickel plate their premium lines in both handgun and rifle ammunition. It makes it a little more resistant to corrosion and makes it prettier.
In handgun ammunition, nickel plated brass will split sooner than plain brass will. The plating process makes the brass somewhat brittle, so it splits sooner from expansion and contraction during firing and sizing.
Hope this helps.
Fred
The second reason is more recent. Some manufacturers will nickel plate their premium lines in both handgun and rifle ammunition. It makes it a little more resistant to corrosion and makes it prettier.
In handgun ammunition, nickel plated brass will split sooner than plain brass will. The plating process makes the brass somewhat brittle, so it splits sooner from expansion and contraction during firing and sizing.
Hope this helps.
Fred
seeking_coyotes
Member
Thank you...very helpful!
ColtPythonElite
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FWIW, a split nickel case rings like a tiny bell when you sort out brass. The sound makes 'em easy to find.
Pretty well covered here. Just to overkill... 
- EITHER nickel-plated or all-brass cases will ring like a bell if split, by the way.
- The nickel plating makes all types (pistol AND rifle) of brass more brittle and wear out in fewer reloads. The nickel coating is harder, more brittle, and takes working/resizing harder than the brass underneath and as such stresses form/build-up faster leading to splits.
- This is NOT to say that all "brass" brass is the same it's worth mentioning - poorly made, poorly alloyed, poorly annealed (and etc) regular brass can split as soon or faster than many nickle-plated types (A-merc anyone?).
- Chief benefits of nickle as mentioned are the corrosive resistance, as well as many people feeling the harder/smoother surface aids in feeding of semi-autos.
- Note that you really can't effectively anneal nickel-plated brass. That adds to its short-life reputation. The two different layers of metal expand/contract and stress differently so annealing them, as I understand, tends to help little or do more harm than good.
For me...
I don't reload nickel-plated rifle brass but know others who like it - either for tough/wet conditions, to keep different loads for the same rifle seperate, etc. I really like to use the stuff for my cast-bullet handgun loads though.
The combinations of mild loads, bullet lube, etc makes cast loads much dirtier than the jacketed ones. Sooty nickel cleans faster than sooty brass, according to my tumblers. The other bonus is that since the loads are low pressure and barely work the cases, I often get 15+ reloads out of the nickel brass anyway. Usually freak out and toss them around then despite getting very few splits ever at that point even.
Hope this helps!
- EITHER nickel-plated or all-brass cases will ring like a bell if split, by the way.
- The nickel plating makes all types (pistol AND rifle) of brass more brittle and wear out in fewer reloads. The nickel coating is harder, more brittle, and takes working/resizing harder than the brass underneath and as such stresses form/build-up faster leading to splits.
- This is NOT to say that all "brass" brass is the same it's worth mentioning - poorly made, poorly alloyed, poorly annealed (and etc) regular brass can split as soon or faster than many nickle-plated types (A-merc anyone?).
- Chief benefits of nickle as mentioned are the corrosive resistance, as well as many people feeling the harder/smoother surface aids in feeding of semi-autos.
- Note that you really can't effectively anneal nickel-plated brass. That adds to its short-life reputation. The two different layers of metal expand/contract and stress differently so annealing them, as I understand, tends to help little or do more harm than good.
For me...
I don't reload nickel-plated rifle brass but know others who like it - either for tough/wet conditions, to keep different loads for the same rifle seperate, etc. I really like to use the stuff for my cast-bullet handgun loads though.
The combinations of mild loads, bullet lube, etc makes cast loads much dirtier than the jacketed ones. Sooty nickel cleans faster than sooty brass, according to my tumblers. The other bonus is that since the loads are low pressure and barely work the cases, I often get 15+ reloads out of the nickel brass anyway. Usually freak out and toss them around then despite getting very few splits ever at that point even.
Hope this helps!
gamestalker
member
I load with some and it doesn't seem to wear out any sooner that standard yellow stuff, maybe even a little longer.
I can't get decent groups with it in one of my 7 mags. while the other 7 mag. likes it just fine.
There is one particular difference when loading with it, loads show a little bit higher pressure, I'm thinking may be due to it having less room for the powder charge, which is very noticable when using large charges of slow burning powders. Maybe it's just because it's thicker and has less ability to flex like standard brass? Don't know for sure, just know it is related to the brass, because the same loads in standard brass aren't doing it. Higher pressures are occuring in all my firearms I use it for. On the plus side, I can reduce my powder charge, and still get about the same velocities.
This is an interesting subject and deserves some more attention.
I can't get decent groups with it in one of my 7 mags. while the other 7 mag. likes it just fine.
There is one particular difference when loading with it, loads show a little bit higher pressure, I'm thinking may be due to it having less room for the powder charge, which is very noticable when using large charges of slow burning powders. Maybe it's just because it's thicker and has less ability to flex like standard brass? Don't know for sure, just know it is related to the brass, because the same loads in standard brass aren't doing it. Higher pressures are occuring in all my firearms I use it for. On the plus side, I can reduce my powder charge, and still get about the same velocities.
This is an interesting subject and deserves some more attention.
Grumulkin
Member
If you need to trim it, nickel plated brass can wear out a cutter VERY fast. For that reason, for trimming nickel plated brass, I use a trim die.
gamestalker
member
I didn't realize it wears the cutter out. I've trimmed a lot with the little Lee setup, and haven't had a problem. But I think the cutter on those is carbide steel?
howlnmad
Member
This is a public service announcement:
To any and all that partake in the "nickel is bad" kool-ade, I will be more than happy to receive and dispose of it properly for you. I will gladly accept any quantity and caliber.
To any and all that partake in the "nickel is bad" kool-ade, I will be more than happy to receive and dispose of it properly for you. I will gladly accept any quantity and caliber.
Grumulkin
Member
The particular cutter I ruined after trimming just a few nickel plated cases was by Redding and new cutter heads for it run about $18 each. Redding did replace it and I've not tried trimming nickel plated cases with it since then. Perhaps the Lee trimmer cutter head is of better quality.
ScottieRussell
Member
I just spent the better part of a half hour reading up on vertigris. In all my years of shooting I never heard of that. Thanks...
ReloaderFred
Member
Vertigris was a real problem back when belt loops were the norm. It doesn't take long at all for it to form, and if the rounds are left in the loops for an extended period of time, it will eat right through the brass. I have first hand knowledge of this.......
Hope this helps.
Fred
Hope this helps.
Fred
mc223
Member
Gee Fred. I thought you were talkin bout the river or the town in Ok.
ReloaderFred
Member
mc223,
Only if it's green and slimy..........
Vertigris is to brass what mold is to bread.
Fred
Only if it's green and slimy..........
Vertigris is to brass what mold is to bread.
Fred
MtnCreek
Member
I thought the brass was thinner to allow for the thickness of the nickel coating. Right or wrong?
akaral
Member
- seeking coyotes - I get all my .223 .45 and .40 from a local P.D. range, they use the federal tactical, and tons of speer stuff. No issues with any but I noticed that the .223 nickel plated stuff is SHORT. My trim die cuts down to 1.74" but none of the federal stuff has been long enough to trim. FWIW, like Gamestalker, I too have been getting higher velocities reloading with this stuff. I'm using BL-c2, H-335, and IMR4895, I run 50-75% of the max loads but my velocities seem to run 150 -175 fps faster than the max loads listed. . . no pressure signs though?!
If you're running loads at 50-75% of max charge weight in any caliber in nickel-plated brass, and getting faster than max-load velocities, there's something playing serious tricks in your setup. And not the brass, nickel or not. As in your scale is scarily off and/or your chronograph is way out of whack.
Unless I'm reading you wrong. Most starting loads are more than 50-75% of max loads aside from small capacity handgun calibers. Reduce many max charge weights by 50%, especially in a rifle caliber, and you're likely to squib one.
Unless I'm reading you wrong. Most starting loads are more than 50-75% of max loads aside from small capacity handgun calibers. Reduce many max charge weights by 50%, especially in a rifle caliber, and you're likely to squib one.
akaral
Member
depoloni - I think I worded it wrong - for instance, say 24gn of h335 is starting, and 26 is a max load, I normally work my load up starting at say 25gn (50%) and don't like going anymore than 25.5 (75%) of the listed max load. . . I don't know the case capacity difference between fed nickel, and say rem brass. But I'm curious: using the same load, bullet, and primer, and switching to a brass case that is of proper length would change my figures any BTW< 24 and 26gn numbers were just fictitious examples
BTW< 24 and 26gn numbers were just fictitious examplessnuffy
Member
This war about how bad a nickel plated brass case of whatever caliber is, has been raging for years. Here and on other forums. Way back when it first started to be used, it WAS a plating process. Now it's an electroless COATING.
From Wikipedia;
The nickel coating is very thin, less that .001 thick. It doesn't add hardly anything to the weight of the case, or restrict case capacity. I guess you could say if the base brass case has a .001 coating on the inside and outside of the case, it IS thicker. IF the base case is the same thickness, then it's coated, it would be thicker and heavier.
Again copied from wikipedia;
Low phosphorus electroless nickel
1. Hard deposits
2. Very uniform thickness
3. Excellent corrosion resistance in alkaline environments
Medium phosphorus electroless nickel
1. Very bright and semi-bright options
2. High speed deposit rate
3. Very stable
4. Used for Slurry Disposal Industries
5. The most common type of electroless nickel applied
High phosphorus electroless nickel
1. Superior corrosion protection
2. Excellent acid resistance
3. Lower porosity
4. Non-magnetic, when phosphorus content is greater than 11.2%
5. Less prone to staining
6. Pit-free deposits
So which one is on our nickel plated brass? I don't know, but I suspect it's the medium phosphorous. It looks like the low phosphorous would be too hard for our use.
From Wikipedia;
The nickel coating is very thin, less that .001 thick. It doesn't add hardly anything to the weight of the case, or restrict case capacity. I guess you could say if the base brass case has a .001 coating on the inside and outside of the case, it IS thicker. IF the base case is the same thickness, then it's coated, it would be thicker and heavier.
Again copied from wikipedia;
Low phosphorus electroless nickel
1. Hard deposits
2. Very uniform thickness
3. Excellent corrosion resistance in alkaline environments
Medium phosphorus electroless nickel
1. Very bright and semi-bright options
2. High speed deposit rate
3. Very stable
4. Used for Slurry Disposal Industries
5. The most common type of electroless nickel applied
High phosphorus electroless nickel
1. Superior corrosion protection
2. Excellent acid resistance
3. Lower porosity
4. Non-magnetic, when phosphorus content is greater than 11.2%
5. Less prone to staining
6. Pit-free deposits
So which one is on our nickel plated brass? I don't know, but I suspect it's the medium phosphorous. It looks like the low phosphorous would be too hard for our use.
Funshooter45
Member
Thanks snuffy. That clears up a lot of things. In general, I don't use nickle plated brass. But I have a couple hundred cases of it mixed in with my normal .357 brass. I have heard the sotries of the nickle plating flaking off and I had heard stories of it making the cases more brittle. But based on my limited sample, I have seen neither. A few of the oldest cases must have been reloaded and tumbled 15 times by now. All I see on a couple of them is a gradual wearing away of the plating. Not flaking off in chunks, just a gradual thinning until you start to see the yellow showing through toward the mouths. None of them have split so far in spite of getting a medium roll crimp each time. But then none of the regular brass have either.
One nice thing about them is that they go through the sizer die a lot easier than the unplated cases. Other than that, they are the same. That would fit with the electroless thin plating you refer to.
One nice thing about them is that they go through the sizer die a lot easier than the unplated cases. Other than that, they are the same. That would fit with the electroless thin plating you refer to.
ReloaderFred
Member
In the early days, flaking nickel was a problem, especially in handgun brass, where it was used the most. This is no longer a problem, unless using older brass. I still have some of that older brass and there is nickel flaking off of it, but I only keep a few samples to show that it did happen.
These days, the nickel polishes off if left in the tumbler too long, but very, very seldom is there any flaking involved. I have seen a few rifle rounds that had been trimmed show evidence of flaking nickel around the case mouth, though.
For handgun brass, in particular .38 Special, the nickel plated brass will split much sooner than unplated brass. My wife and I go through roughly 10,000 rounds of .38 Special ammunition per year for Cowboy Action Shooting. I reserve the nickel plated brass for our revolver rounds, since a split case in the lever action rifle will lock it up. I've experienced too many split nickel plated cases in the rifle to use them in it anymore. In a revolver, it doesn't matter if it splits.
Hope this helps.
Fred
These days, the nickel polishes off if left in the tumbler too long, but very, very seldom is there any flaking involved. I have seen a few rifle rounds that had been trimmed show evidence of flaking nickel around the case mouth, though.
For handgun brass, in particular .38 Special, the nickel plated brass will split much sooner than unplated brass. My wife and I go through roughly 10,000 rounds of .38 Special ammunition per year for Cowboy Action Shooting. I reserve the nickel plated brass for our revolver rounds, since a split case in the lever action rifle will lock it up. I've experienced too many split nickel plated cases in the rifle to use them in it anymore. In a revolver, it doesn't matter if it splits.
Hope this helps.
Fred
TGReaper
Member
I have been shooting in Bullseye matches for 40+ years and have some nickel plated brass that is just about that old.
The first 10 years I used a Colt Python ( tight chambers = easy on brass) the last 30 have been with assorted S&W mod.52s this is a bit harder on the cases,but with the light loads used in this game I have not noticed any difference in case life.
At this time I load only nickel plated cases for competition as it seems to be a bit slicker and feeds easier in the 52.
TGR
The first 10 years I used a Colt Python ( tight chambers = easy on brass) the last 30 have been with assorted S&W mod.52s this is a bit harder on the cases,but with the light loads used in this game I have not noticed any difference in case life.
At this time I load only nickel plated cases for competition as it seems to be a bit slicker and feeds easier in the 52.
TGR
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