NICS denial appeals still suspended?

[Frank Ettin]

I would also add that laying your money on the table doesn't mean that the FFL has accepted it. In addition to the Brady Bill violation, you (the proposed buyer) could be looking at theft charges. I don't know about other states, but in AR, theft of a firearm is a felony.

An offer, acceptance, and transfer of consideration says otherwise. I'm not sure what your court system is like, but you will never receive a filing here under these circumstances. I'll guarantee, if you could somehow pull off a filing, you'll never get a conviction.

Hogwash.

Here's the thing. Offer, acceptance, consideration etc., are all very nice when discussing the common law threshold elements of the formation of a contract, but there's a lot of additional factors especially when the subject matter and performance of the contract are heavily regulated.

It is also basic contract law that a contract to perform an illegal act is void. Also, when performance of a contract would violate the law, performance is excused.

The Gun Control Act of 1968, as amended by the Brady Bill, sets out detailed requirements which must be satisfied in order for an FFL to lawfully transfer a gun to a person. Furthermore, since a contract to acquire a gun from an FFL in a manner that doesn't satisfy those requirements is an unlawful contract, a buyer has no right to performance except when/if transfer is done in a manner that satisfies those legal requirements. Thus the buyer can not acquire legal title to the gun except when transfer is done in accordance to those legal requirements.

Let me suggest that you not try to pretend you're a lawyer if you don't have the education and experience to be qualified for the role.

On the other hand, Spats McGee is an experienced attorney practicing in Arkansas. Oh, and I'm a lawyer who retired after 30+ years of successful practice; and although I retired in 2007, I am still an active member of the California Bar.

 

[Old Fuff]

On many occasions I have made an implied offer by laying money on a gun show table or retailer's showcase. However simply showing the money did not constitute a sale. The seller had a choice of accepting the cash and then going through the procedures mandated by laws and regulations, or he could shake his head and tell me to pick my money up.

 

[bikemutt]

From a practical standpoint, once a decision to buy a gun is made, the dealer regains physical control of it. Short of scaling the counter I don't see how a denied buyer can end up with the gun.

 

[HexHead]

If it's there overnight, the gunsmith needs to log it in and out. Shouldn't need a 4473, unless SN is changed.

I've heard of some manufacturers when they need to replace a frame, for instance, destroying the original and sending the replacement with the same SN.

 

[HexHead]

Does anyone know of any negative consequences for simply laying payment for the gun on the counter and walking out with it when improperly denied? Is there some law you would be violating?

Here in TN at least, let's say you're trading in a gun. Once you hand that gun to the dealer, and you get denied on the new gun, you can't walk out of the store with your old gun. As far as the dealer is concerned, you're now a prohibited person until told otherwise by an appeal.

If the denial is overturned, the transaction can proceed. Otherwise, they can offer to buy your old gun from you or to sell it for you on consignment.

 

[Red Wind]

If it's there overnight, the gunsmith needs to log it in and out. Shouldn't need a 4473, unless SN is changed.

That is correct. Quite helpful in leaving a gun at a border LGS before entering enemy territory, such as NJ and NY.

 

[coyotehitman]

Let me suggest that you not try to pretend you're a lawyer if you don't have the education and experience to be qualified for the role.

Pretend I'm an attorney. You make it seem like it's an admirable profession. Attorneys rank right up there with the muck I scrape off my shoe after a visit to the dog park.

Oh, and I'm a lawyer who retired after 30+ years of successful practice; and although I retired in 2007, I am still an active member of the California Bar.

Good for you! You seem very impressed with yourself! Boast much? You did seem to dodge (in typical attorney like fashion) the fact that you'd never get a filing or a conviction, but I digress... Let me suggest you do a little better if you are trying to impress me.

 

[Frank Ettin]

Let me suggest that you not try to pretend you're a lawyer if you don't have the education and experience to be qualified for the role.

Pretend I'm an attorney. You make it seem like it's an admirable profession. Attorneys rank right up there with the muck I scrape off my shoe after a visit to the dog park.

Oh, and I'm a lawyer who retired after 30+ years of successful practice; and although I retired in 2007, I am still an active member of the California Bar.

Good for you! You seem very impressed with yourself! Boast much? You did seem to dodge (in typical attorney like fashion) the fact that you'd never get a filing or a conviction, but I digress... Let me suggest you do a little better if you are trying to impress me.

A typical reaction from someone who is ignorant about the law.

The fact is that you were spouting off about the law, and it was just a bunch of gibberish.

And of course since you are not competent to challenge substantively my response to you in post 26 you fall back on insults.

The bottom line is that you don't know much about law, and insulting me won't change that fact.

 

[alsaqr]

Pretend I'm an attorney. You make it seem like it's an admirable profession. Attorneys rank right up there with the muck I scrape off my shoe after a visit to the dog park.

Personal Insults: Last resort of cowards and the uninformed.