Nics Denial, New Ohio Law, Need advice.

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Juggalo Reign

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Ok so I've found myself stuck between a rock and a hard place. Let me first start off by stating that I, By FEDERAL law have a 100% legal right to own a firearm, however, I was recently denied on a nics check. A quick background. I have a clean criminal record except from 1 incident when I was 18, from which I received 2 misdemeanor charges pleaded down from a single felony. The 2 charges where 1 count of petty larceny and 1 count of misdemeanor drug possession. Neither of these, per federal law, bar me from owning a firearm. By federal law you must have more than one drug charge within 5 years to be considered an unlawful user of a controlled substance, and you must wait 1 year from the date you were sentenced to have the right to own a firearm. Petty larceny does not affect your right at all. This was all 4 years ago btw. So that clears up that for anyone who would argue I cant own a gun because of the drug charge. Anyways here is my problem. I am a WV resident and have always bought my firearms here from ffl's except for 1 that i bought years ago in Ohio. I have always been DELAYED, but later proceeded by default because they could not come to a decision. I assume this is because it takes time for nics to track down the records showing that the felony was not a conviction and the required time has passed for the drug charge. So anyways, I was looking at a nice Mosin at a shop in Ohio about a month ago and I decided to get it. Nics came back denied. Through my research I have determined that it was do to the recent law that passed making it illegal for anyone to purchase or own a firearm in Ohio who has ever been convicted of a drug charge, yes even a misdemeanor. Now here is my problem and where I need advice. I have taken no action yet as to this nor attempted to buy another firearm. I cannot appeal this decision, as I now know that they will deny the appeal because I am legally not allow to own a gun in Ohio due to the possession 4 years ago. But this is only a state law so I am still allowed to own firearms in WV where I am a resident. However, I do not want to go and try to buy a gun here being as I just got denied and am still a little scared it is somehow on record or ill be flagged to get denied from now on. How do I go about finding out if can still buy from WV ffl's without actually trying to make a purchase? Even if they run a non purchase check, I have never actually been proceeded before and they will not proceed me (always goes into default and I get my rifle a week later cause they cant come to a decision). I really dont want to file for a upin either. What can I do? Should I try to make another purchase in WV and if it goes into default and I get my rifle ill know Im correct. If I get denied again would that be bad or send up red flags? If I appeal the decision, which I know ill lose, would that bar me from passing a nics check ever again?
 
If you answer all the questions truthfully of a form 4473 submitted to an FFL, and you are legal to possess/purchase that firearm in the state the transaction is taking place and in your home state of residence, there is nothing they can prosecute you for. (Purchasing rifles from an out-of-state FFL). Obviously, in your home state, the state laws of the state the transaction is occurring and the state laws of your residence are the same.

A NICS denial is NOT a prohibition against purchasing or possessing firearms. It is only an indication to the FFL that the person MIGHT be a prohibited person and it is against the law for the FFL to proceed with that transaction. There is no law prohibiting you from still purchasing a firearm just because of a NICS denial.

If you read the prohibited factors in 18 USC 922 (d) and (g), you will notice that a NICS denial is not among the list of things that will make you a prohibited person.
 
You are wise to be scared they will keep track of the denial: they enter it into a database accessible to law enforcement so there's a real good chance it will get picked up next time around.

There is no way I know of to "dry run" a NICS check.

Since you have not appealed the denial I have to say your "research" is assumptive; that may be unwise. There are a myriad of reasons you may have been denied, including the dreaded mistaken identity.

Since you don't want a VAF and a UPIN, at least get fingerprinted and order a copy of your FBI report. Then you won't be guessing at reasons, you'll know exactly where you stand.

I won't try to talk you into getting a UPIN but really though, wouldn't it be nice to not have to worry about this any longer?
 
That's pretty chilling. A person could be a law-abiding gun owner in PA, set foot in OH with a hunting rifle and be felon-in-the-making.
 
bikemutt said:
That's pretty chilling. A person could be a law-abiding gun owner in PA, set foot in OH with a hunting rifle and be felon-in-the-making.
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Yes this is very chilling. One of the ranges I frequent is in Ohio. Imagine if I were to have gotten pulled over for something on the way there. I would be an instant felon for a crime only punishable in Ohio and not even know I had done anything wrong. I am just confused about he situation and dont know how to proceed. Basically what Im asking is since Ive been denied once, does that make for an automatic denial from now on here in WV? Also, if I appeal the denial and lose, which I will because I cant own a gun in Ohio, will that also cause me instance denials from now on in any state?
 
rtroha said:
Last year Ohio House Bill 54 became law which removed misdemeanor drug crimes as a weapons disability. This went into effect September 30, 2011.

If you look at the actual bill, you will see that they added the word "felony" to the law to clarify that misdemeanors don't count.

http://www.legislature.state.oh.us/bills.cfm?ID=129_HB_54
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So your saying I couldn't have been denied for a misdemeanor drug charge? 0.0 Thats not good. That means I would have had to been denied for some other reason. I guess all I can do is file an appeal and see what comes back. Ill also be applying for a Upin at the same time so that I never have to deal with this crap again.
 
rtroha said:
Last year Ohio House Bill 54 became law which removed misdemeanor drug crimes as a weapons disability. This went into effect September 30, 2011.
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I did not know about this revision to the law. It would appear there is grounds for an Appeal.
You need to find out, in writing, the exact reason(s) for the Denial and proceed from there.

Filing a Voluntary Appeal & acquiring a UPIN is a worthwhile endeavor.
I have one and it is nice to have.
 
Is anyone familiar enough with the NICS system to verify whether it has actually been programmed to look at state-specific weapons disabilities? As a federal system, I have to wonder if they would do that.
 
rtroha said:
Is anyone familiar enough with the NICS system to verify whether it has actually been programmed to look at state-specific weapons disabilities? As a federal system, I have to wonder if they would do that.
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What exactly is a state-specific weapons disability?
 
The subject of this thread. Ohio used to forbid firearms possessions due to misdemeanor drug crimes. A firearms disability specific only to Ohio.
 
OK, but apparently OH has seen their errant ways and changed the law to drug felonies. So maybe there was a state firearms disability but there no longer is one.

So, since it's unlikely the NICS invoked an old law that no longer applies to deny the OP, I don't think it will hurt for him to ask them why they did. It should only take 3 days or so, and $0 to learn the answer. He can even ask them online as long as he has the NTN and/or any state transaction number. The answer will come in the form of one or more of the federally prohibitive criteria.

If the OP believes the NICS was wrong or misinformed, he may then wish to appeal their decision. This will required getting fingerprinted. I suggest getting an extra set at this point since the additional cost to do so is minimal.

Next, use the extra set of 'prints to obtain a copy of your FBI record, it takes about 8 weeks to get the report. With the FBI record in hand the OP will have complete knowledge and be able to request court records, arrest documents, pardons, expungements and whatever else is germane to get his denial overruled.

Now file the appeal along with all the paperwork and know you've done you best to get the denial reversed. If this is likely to be a recurring problem, submitting a VAF in order to receive a UPIN is a good idea since the NICS will not take any of the documentation into account the next time without a VAF.

While this may all seem like the long road home, it's worthwhile to keep in mind that the NICS appeal section is under no obligation to go around and around with someone who has been denied; if they believe they have the right person identified, and the record they have supports their position, it's game-over. I guess it all comes down to how important that Mosin is.
 
Something people seem to be missing is that the NICS check may have misidentified him with some one else. Especially by attempting to buy a gun from out of State, it may have brought up information that confused him with someone else. It may have been the reason he was always being delayed before.

I am fortunate in that my name is relatively rare, one of my cousins has a very common name, and has had complications in the past, with numerous people having the same or similar names. It didn't help that another person with the exact same name, but no relation, lived in the same county, and was a multiple convicted felon. He always has envied my ability to avoid credit hassles and NICS delays.

Checking out why you were denied seems to be a very good idea. They may have incorrect information, which needs to be corrected.
 
I would also like to add that if you want to appeal do it now. It is a very long and drawn out process. Believe me I went through it myself. Also, once you are denied you will keep getting denied until you clear this up.
 
*UPDATE* So after sending in my fingerprints and waiting for about a week or two, the fbi finally mailed me back with the reason for my denial. In the state of Ohio, anyone who has ever been convicted of any drug related charge, misdemeanor or not, is no longer allowed to own a firearm. Period. The has been no revisions to the law and Ohio supreme court upheld this ruling after one of the people who was arrested appealed it all the way to the top. IF YOU LIVE IN OHIO, AND YOU HAVE ANY DRUG POSSESSION CHARGE ON YOUR RECORD, YOU CANNOT OWN A FIREARM. YOU HAVE LOST YOUR RIGHTS.
 
Juggalo Reign said:
The has been no revisions to the law and Ohio supreme court upheld this ruling after one of the people who was arrested appealed it all the way to the top.
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Er... really? Because this is the way the law reads right now:

2923.13 Having weapons while under disability.

(A) Unless relieved from disability as provided in section 2923.14 of the Revised Code, no person shall knowingly acquire, have, carry, or use any firearm or dangerous ordnance, if any of the following apply:

(1) The person is a fugitive from justice.

(2) The person is under indictment for or has been convicted of any felony offense of violence or has been adjudicated a delinquent child for the commission of an offense that, if committed by an adult, would have been a felony offense of violence.

(3) The person is under indictment for or has been convicted of any felony offense involving the illegal possession, use, sale, administration, distribution, or trafficking in any drug of abuse or has been adjudicated a delinquent child for the commission of an offense that, if committed by an adult, would have been a felony offense involving the illegal possession, use, sale, administration, distribution, or trafficking in any drug of abuse.

(4) The person is drug dependent, in danger of drug dependence, or a chronic alcoholic.

(5) The person is under adjudication of mental incompetence, has been adjudicated as a mental defective, has been committed to a mental institution, has been found by a court to be a mentally ill person subject to hospitalization by court order, or is an involuntary patient other than one who is a patient only for purposes of observation. As used in this division, “mentally ill person subject to hospitalization by court order” and “patient” have the same meanings as in section 5122.01 of the Revised Code.

(B) Whoever violates this section is guilty of having weapons while under disability, a felony of the third degree.

Amended by 129th General Assembly File No. 30, HB 54, § 1, eff. 9/30/2011.

Effective Date: 04-08-2004

http://codes.ohio.gov/orc/2923.13
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ttolhurst said:
Er... really? Because this is the way the law reads right now:
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You are correct. As of September 2011 the law was revised to just felony charges. I just spoke with a NICS rep who informed me that unfortunately, at the time I had made the purchase, the old law was still in effect. This makes more sense. I am now awaiting my UPIN and will be happy to be allowed purchases in Ohio. I should have called before trying to decipher their decision and Ohio's state laws myself.
 
Now you need to file an appeal (because the law did change in September). Note: Ohio has some interesting wording in their statutes(regarding former law violations), so it would be best to get the appeal filed, and then you will get detailed information on the denial (like applicable statutory citations).

Also, Ohio could have you labeled as a;
A “Drug dependent person”: any person who, by reason of the use of any drug of abuse, is physically, psychologically, or physically and psychologically dependent upon the use of such drug, to the detriment of the person’s health or welfare.

-OR-

A “Person in danger of becoming a drug dependent person”: any person who, by reason of the person’s habitual or incontinent use of any drug of abuse, is in imminent danger of becoming a drug dependent person.

I did not find anything in the Ohio statutes that indicates how this determination is made. A single misdemeanor conviction. I doubt it, but who knows???



BTW, what was the date of your attempted purchase?


EDIT: I saw you last post after I replied...
 
I do not think the UPIN is the reason you will be able to now purchase in Ohio. You should be able to do that today.

And since when does NICS give out any information regarding denials over the phone?
 
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