Nipples frozen

[Omnivore]

I suppose one could get a new throw-away Italian wrench and case harden it. I stress new, because of it's ever been used, even once, it'll be deformed.

 

[Jim K]

The reason screws and nipples bugger up instead of coming out is that the wrench/screwdriver rides up and out or or off the screw slot or nipple.

Here is about the best way if you have a drill press. First, soak things with a penetrant.

Then, remove the handle from a conventional nipple wrench or use a short screwdriver blade like those sold for power tools.

Chuck the tool in the drill press.

Clamp the item (gun or cylinder) in the drill press vise, padding as needed. (You may need help to hold a long gun in place.)

With NO power, bring the drill press chuck down so the driver/wrench fits into or over the nipple/screw.

Lock the press down or hold it down to keep pressure on while you manually (NO POWER) work the chuck back and forth.

It is a rare stuck screw or nipple that won't yield to this treatment. If it won't, it is probably time to use the drill press as a drill and drill out the stubborn piece.

Jim

 

[HisSoldier]

"If some company in America would just make us a good hardened nipple wrench"

We have production capability and a good heat treater. 4140 @ 45-50 RC?

I just bought another 1858 after a 35 year hiatus. Pietta SS, the wife always liked shooting the old blue one so many years ago, maybe she will again.

 

[Cosmoline]

Kroil will work wonders. Be careful though it's HIGHLY toxic and if you get it on your fingers you will probably be able to remove them with ease the next morning too ;-) Wear gloves and do it in a ventilated area.

 

[oneiron]

Does any one know where to buy a good nipple wrench for the Pietta 58 remington. It uses a number 10 cci percussion cap.
I have a heat gun I used on it and have soaked it for days with a very good penetration spray I get from the JD dealer.
A 4.5 mm socket seem to fit over the nipples, and I will file it out, but I will have to get a very good adapter to use a impact wrench.
I have been reluctant to put a torch on it. I called Cabela's, and I am waiting for there return call to see if we can work something out about another cylinder. We will see if the guy calls back; he said he would check into problem.
New subject: I ran out of bp, and I purchased a can of Pryodex P. I have fired about six cylinders of it , and it is the dirtiest, gummiest junk I have ever put in a pistol. I ordered 10# of Goex today. It would be great if they could get the rule changed on bp shipments.

 

[scrat]

stick to Goex.

 

[Smokin_Gun]

Scrat you seen my list in a couple other forums? Need, want, or lookin' for anything?


SG

 

[Chawbaccer]

I make my own nipple wrenches out of a quarter inch grade 8 bolt. Center drill one end a eighth inch to clear the cone and use a small grinder to cut a slot, touch up to fit as necessary with a file. Be carefull not to over heat while grinding. Drill a slot for a cross bar, 10p nail works fine or leave the head on if yoiu want to use a wrench. They arent that hard to make and will get stolen, borrowed, lost or just given away before they wear out.

 

[mykeal]

I'd have to disagree that they aren't that hard to make.

Certainly not difficult if you possess the equipment but drilling a straight hole in the center of a Grade 8 bolt isn't a hand-held job. It's well beyond most home hobby craft benches. Most people don't have drill presses with cylindrical vise attachments and high strength drill bits. And most don't know that Ballistol or any of the other mineral oil based solvents will work as a cooling agent.

It's a great idea, but not a simple task.

 

[HisSoldier]

Man! Advice is weirdly variable! At a gun show yesterday I mentioned that about a hardened wrench, the fellow said there is no reason for a hardened wrench. Maybe he was thinking real hard, but I'm thinking (As I said ) 45-50 RC.

The obvious reason for a wrench being hard-ER than the objects they fit to is that one wrench may be used on many many objects, the wear would be on the driving wrench therefore rather than on the many driven objects.

I see no reason to have the wrench fail before the nipple does EXCEPT in the case where idiots have no idea of their strength and over tighten, even then a torque limiter would be the answer.

Anyway, I bought a wrench and 6 #11 "Hardened" nipples. I wonder if the wrench purchased has enough carbon to harden? I can do a rockwell test on it. Maybe I'll cut a tiny wafer off the other end and see if it will harden, if so I'll harden and temper it to my desire.

 

[GRB]

Gun tools, like screwdrivers, are often made to break before they would break a screw. They are made of softer metal than are the guns so as not to bugger up any gun parts. I imagine this could hold true for a nipple wrench. If the wrench snaps off the nipple, leaving behind the threads inside the cylinder, would it not be a royal pain in the neck to get it out.. So the wrench goes first, so pieces do not get broken off remaining inside the gun.

 

[Tony Sopranno]

I make my own nipple wrenches out of a quarter inch grade 8 bolt. Center drill one end a eighth inch to clear the cone and use a small grinder to cut a slot, touch up to fit as necessary with a file. Be carefull not to over heat while grinding. Drill a slot for a cross bar, 10p nail works fine or leave the head on if yoiu want to use a wrench. They arent that hard to make and will get stolen, borrowed, lost or just given away before they wear out.
-Chawbaccer

How do you get the flats on the inside, to engage the nipple, or is it simply by friction?

 

[jdomin]

kroil

let it set for a few hours

 

[jojosdad]

Kroil will work wonders. Be careful though it's HIGHLY toxic

Cosmo - This is the first time I've heard of this. Can you direct me to a source please?

 

[Patrick Henry]

Place the cylinder on your workbench, along with a spraycan of penetrating oil, a nipple wrench, and get your wife's hair blowdryer. Spray the nipples from both ends of the cylinder. Let it set for a few minutes. With the blowdryer heat the nipple end of the cylinder. While the nipples are good and warm take the wrench and loosen each nipple.

Personally, I prefer just a romantic dinner, but to each his own.

 

[Chawbaccer]

Tony, I use a dremel with a grinding wheel. If a grade 8 is too hard try making one with something different. I don't claim to drill an accurate hole, but it will clear the nipple cone. I will look for my camera and post a picture later.

 

[mykeal]

Man! Advice is weirdly variable! At a gun show yesterday I mentioned that about a hardened wrench, the fellow said there is no reason for a hardened wrench. Maybe he was thinking real hard, but I'm thinking (As I said ) 45-50 RC.

The obvious reason for a wrench being hard-ER than the objects they fit to is that one wrench may be used on many many objects, the wear would be on the driving wrench therefore rather than on the many driven objects.

I see no reason to have the wrench fail before the nipple does EXCEPT in the case where idiots have no idea of their strength and over tighten, even then a torque limiter would be the answer.

Anyway, I bought a wrench and 6 #11 "Hardened" nipples. I wonder if the wrench purchased has enough carbon to harden? I can do a rockwell test on it. Maybe I'll cut a tiny wafer off the other end and see if it will harden, if so I'll harden and temper it to my desire.

Gun tools, like screwdrivers, are often made to break before they would break a screw. They are made of softer metal than are the guns so as not to bugger up any gun parts. I imagine this could hold true for a nipple wrench. If the wrench snaps off the nipple, leaving behind the threads inside the cylinder, would it not be a royal pain in the neck to get it out.. So the wrench goes first, so pieces do not get broken off remaining inside the gun.

I think you misunderstand the situation. The issue is not whether the nipple 'fails' somehow before the wrench. It's that the nipple cannot be turned. The wrench reaches plastic failure before the breakout torque value is reached. Either the bearing area of the wrench or the modulus of the material must be increased, and since geometry prevents adding material (ie, the wrench would no longer fit in the cavity) the only solution is to harden the wrench material.

Breaking the nipple off in the cylinder is possible, but unlike the srew/screwdriver interface, it's very unlikely due to the geometries of the bearing surfaces of the nipple and wrench. It would take a very high strength steel or titanium wrench material, not just a hardened surface on a regular nipple wrench.

 

[HisSoldier]

One of the PIA's of my business is removing broken off bolts, screws etc. when they have rusted in, or been overtightened and snapped off by cavemen. I'm not worried about either of those causes as I won't let them rust and I'm painfully aware of torque requirements. (No caveman)

I would assume the torque required would be no more than 10 foot pounds, same as an M6 cap screw. These nipples I bought are 6 x .75 MM thread.

On a lark I took the wrench I bought from the expert who said it didn't need to be hard, and figuring that if it was made of 12L14 and wouldn't harden I'd toss it, so I heated it to a bright red in a torch flame and quenched it in water. It came out glass hard! It was dead soft before. Then, of course, I tempered it. That should do it.
On another subject, do the stainless Pietta's come with carbon steel or stainless nipples? If they were made of 440 they could be hardened to 59 RC, plenty hard enough for the application I would think, heck, a file is 60 I seem to recall.

 

[Smokin_Gun]

I only tighten mine to about 30 in. lb. or so they jus' need to be snug, if no torque value is given definatley don't over torque...LoL!
I jus' lube the threads snug um up back it off bring it back to litely snug and it works I only break or damage wrenches on new or Used Revs just purchased not on the not on the ones I've been shootin'. Be gentle cones are nipples and have feelins'.


SG

 

[mykeal]

All the Italian factory OEM nipples are carbon steel. Stainless nipples are available from aftermarket suppliers, however. At least one company, Treso, makes them from the Ampo bronze alloy.

 

[sundance44s]

If I could I`d put Ruger nipples in all my pistols ...Now thats a real nipple wrench .

 

[oneiron]

Cabela's called back they are going to swap out my cylinder for another one. End of frozen nipples problem. But this does not solve my problem of finding a good nipple wrench for these nipples that are installed on the cylinders now.

 

[sundance44s]

Oneiron ...when you get the new cylinder it will have nipples in it ...before you do anything with it ..be sure and take the nipples out and put some antiseize compound on the threads ....Those soft nipple wrenches will work ok..as long as you keep the antiseze on the nipples.

 

[hso]

Kroil will work wonders. Be careful though it's HIGHLY toxic

Cosmo - This is the first time I've heard of this. Can you direct me to a source please?

It isn't "HIGHLY toxic". While you might consider what was said to be hyperbole, there is a real definition for "highly toxic" hazardous materials and Kroil doesn't even come close to meeting the definition for "toxic" much less "highly toxic" with an oral LD50 or over 2200 and a dermal LD50 of 1500.

It isn't completely harmless and certainly isn't anything I would handle without nitrile gloves (I deal with HAZMAT all the time so I'm more careful than most folks), but you're fingers aren't going to fall off nor are you going to drop dead from using it. Here's the MSDS for it - https://secure.cnchost.com/kanolabs.com//msds/kroil_liquid.pdf

Toxic
Definition

* Toxic is defined by OSHA 29 CFR 1910.1200 App A as a chemical which falls in any of these three categories:

1. A chemical that has a median lethal dose (LD50) of more than 50 milligrams per kilogram but not more than 500 milligrams per kilogram of body weight when administered orally to albino rats weighing between 200 and 300 grams each.

2. A chemical that has a median lethal dose (LD50) of more than 200 milligrams per kilogram but not more than 1,000 milligrams per kilogram of body weight when administered by continuous contact for 24 hours (or less if death occurs within 24 hours) with the bare skin of albino rabbits weighing between two and three kilograms each.

3. A chemical that has a median lethal concentration (LC50) in air of more than 200 parts per million but not more than 2,000 parts per million by volume of gas or vapor, or more than two milligrams per liter but not more than 20 milligrams per liter of mist, fume, or dust, when administered by continuous inhalation for one hour (or less if death occurs within one hour) to albino rats weighing between 200 and 300 grams each.

stirrer

When you work around chemicals be sure you have a safety station like this one from Safety Emporium.


* Highly toxic is defined by OSHA as:

1. A chemical that has a median lethal dose (LD50) of 50 milligrams or less per kilogram of body weight when administered orally to albino rats weighing between 200 and 300 grams each.

2. A chemical that has a median lethal dose (LD50) of 200 milligrams or less per kilogram of body weight when administered by continuous contact for 24 hours (or less if death occurs within 24 hours) with the bare skin of albino rabbits weighing between two and three kilograms each.

3. A chemical that has a median lethal concentration (LC50) in air of 200 parts per million by volume or less of gas or vapor, or 2 milligrams per liter or less of mist, fume, or dust, when administered by continuous inhalation for one hour (or less if death occurs within one hour) to albino rats weighing between 200 and 300 grams each.

* Toxicology is the study of the nature, effects, detection, and mitigation of poisons and the treatment or prevention of poisoning.

* A toxicant is a toxic or poisonous substance. Toxicants may be chemical or physical in nature. Examples include arsenic, benzene, and radiation.

* A toxin is a highly toxic protein produced by certain plants, animals or pathogenic bacteria. Examples include snake venom and anthrax. All toxins are toxicants, but only those toxicants produced by living organisms are toxins.

* Substances that are toxic only to specific types of cells or organs are called cytotoxins.

 

[Iamsniper1]

The only really good nipple wrench has been mentioned above,use a 7/32x1/4 drive socket(Cut slot to fit)HELLO VIETNAM!!!!!Best hot damn nipple wrench ever,just boil cylinder to taste,remove from H2O,slightly cool,remove nipples,clean said cylinder,add dash of NEVER SEIZE,reinstall said nipples and you're good to go,take about 5 minutes to make one,last forever.