NJ gun control: a stunning success as per usual

[The-Fly]

http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/08/06/schoolyard.killings.ap/index.html

NEWARK, New Jersey (AP) -- Three friends were forced to kneel against a wall behind an elementary school and were shot to death at close range, and a fourth was found about 30 feet away with gunshot and knife wounds to her head, police said.

All were from Newark and planned to attend Delaware State University this fall.

Essex County prosecutor Paula Dow said authorities didn't have any suspects or a motive in the killings late Saturday. None of the victims had any criminal record, she said.

"They were good kids," Dow said. Video Watch how the students were ambushed »

The four had been listening to music in a parking lot behind Mount Vernon School when they were gradually joined by a group of men, authorities said.

Newark Police Director Garry McCarthy said the four exchanged text messages saying they should leave but were attacked before they could do so.

Police said the attackers shot one young woman, then forced her three companions down an alley, lined them up against a wall, made them kneel and shot each in the head.

Natasha Aerial, 19, was listed in fair condition at Newark's University Hospital, authorities said. Police identified her companions as her brother, Terrance Aerial, 18, Ofemi Hightower, 20, and Deshawn Harvey, 20.
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The Aerials' mother, Renee Tucker, said the last time she saw them was around 10:30 p.m. Saturday, when they told her they were going around the corner to get something to eat.

"They said they were going to come right back to the house," Tucker said.

 

[strat81]

I used to drive through Newark to get to college in South Orange, NJ. Newark is one of the few places where you genuinely feel like you're in danger at 9am on a bright sunny day. Bed-Stuy Brooklyn is in that group too. Newark is a cesspool of human misery and is, more or less, a city-wide housing project.

Driving 15 minutes to West Orange, Verona, or East Hanover is looking being on another planet. A true example of polar opposites.

 

[never_retreat]

This is not news this is a daily occurance. Cnn must have been pressed for news.

 

[Shadowangel]

I'll never understand that mindset. Watching a friend get shot, then allowing yourself to be herded into an lley, put on your knees, and executed? If they already shot one of you...you might as well fight back and die on your feet instead of your knees.

 

[ChickenHawk]

Well, unless your point is that the gun control laws in NJ weren't sufficient to keep these illegal guns out of the state and thus to prevent this horrible incident:

I'll point out that this tragedy could happen in any state, and even states which permit concealed carry would not have changed the outcome since all of the victims were to young to have CHLs.

Bottom line here is that bad guys WILL get their hands on guns, so best for us to be armed to be able to protect ourselves and our loved ones.

 

[geim druth]

There were 5 other shootings in Newark that same night.

My wife and I were in Newark on Thursday to see Smokey Robinson. At a table outside the Arts Center a guy was selling "Stop Shooting" t-shirts.

Unfortunately, it is much easier, and much more socially acceptable, to blame the situation on the police and on guns than on the true causes.

BTW, Smokey Robinson puts on a heck of a good show.

 

[The-Fly]

my point in posting this, is that NJ's oppressive legal climate does zilch to stop something like this. When the VT shooting happened, all the gun grabbers blamed the state of VA for making it so "easy" to buy a gun. Yet in states that do everything the gun grabbers desire, stuff like this still happens.

 

[Novus Collectus]

I'll point out that this tragedy could happen in any state, and even states which permit concealed carry would not have changed the outcome since all of the victims were to young to have CHLs.

Not all states. Even in Maryland, which is only a may issue state, all three were old enough for a carry permit. And in Vermont they allow carry as young as 16.

 

[The-Fly]

While Maryland may be technically a "may issue" state, in reality its pretty much no issue. When I think of "may issue" states, I think of California and Iowa where its sometimes possible for a normal person to get a permit if they live in the right county. Maryland is more like NJ, in that its "may issue to the rich and famous, no issues for everyone else".

 

[Novus Collectus]

The-Fly
Believe it or not, even before the federal law for retired police officers to get permits, we had about one percent of the adult population with a carry permit. They are much more common than even Marylanders are aware of, but you are right that it is almost impossible for Joe Blow to get one here. According to Maryland Shall Issue, of the 62,000 permits here only 32.5 are not retired officers or have something to do with the legal system, however only 1.7% of the 62,000 carry permit holders are permits issued for personal protection and not business or cash related and this just shows you are basically correct.
While is is important to point out that even though the victims in NJ would not have been prohibitted to have a permit in MD because of age, it is true that they would have had only a one in a million chance of getting one with our current interpretation of our law. I do bring it up though because if MD did become a Shall Issue staate, then unless they changed the age requirments, then all the NJ victims would have been able to have a MD carry permit if they lived here.

Oops, forgot the MSI link http://www.marylandshallissue.org/ccwdata.html

 

[Rainsford]

To be honest, I feel that we have a terrible government in New Jersey because we have no "activist" politicians. From what I can tell, all of our politicians are only in it for the money and power, not to "make a difference" (good or bad, right or left).

Heck, NJ governor John Corzine is only in government because of the massive funds of his own money behind his campaign.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Corzine

I would prefer to be lead by an honest, patriotic, socialist than centrist who's only in it for the money and power.

 

[garymc]

Driver carries less then $20 of remorse.
Not trying to push any buttons, but you'd want someone to tell you if your pants were unzipped. You need to learn the difference between then and than.

 

[The Cavalry]

Amazing that CNN put this story front and center on their web page, but not a peep regarding the brutal rape and murder of two (white) college kids in Knoxville TN.

This happened back in February this year, and the major media outlets didn't even mention it.

Here's the story from a local TV station site:
http://www.wate.com/Global/story.asp?S=6023706

The lack of media coverage was discussed on NPR to a minor degree:
http://www.npr.org/blogs/news/2007/05/debate_over_media_coverage_of_1.html

Excuses for lack of coverage centered on the "lack of newsworthiness" of the story. Surely murder in Newark isn't exactly a rare event, so why does this tragedy merit the attention that the Knoxville one didnt'?

 

[The Deer Hunter]

Thats really horrible.

I don't think this necessarily has to do with gun control, I think it has to do more with these criminals. Although If you didn't have to be 21 to ccw things may have turned out differently.

 

[The Cavalry]

Although If you didn't have to be 21 to ccw things may have turned out differently.

Age has nothing to do with CCW in New Jersey.

If you're not politically-connected enough to get both the local Chief of Police as well as the Superior Court judge to approve, you're not getting a carry permit.

NJ has no "shall issue" requirement in its carry permit law, the issuance of permits is strictly discretionary.

 

[SSN Vet]

an analogy....

Bottom line here is that bad guys WILL get their hands on guns, so best for us to be armed to be able to protect ourselves and our loved ones.

After the VA Tech. slaughter, I had some lively discussions with a co-worker who is very scared of guns (and thus pretty solidly anti-gun). I used an analogy of the war on drugs with gun control that went something like so.....

The "war on drugs" has gone on for a long time with a LOT of $ and manpower thrown at the problem. Yet there're still many, many folks out their with bags of pot the size of your palm in their pockets, glove boxes and end table drawers. So the question arises, are these laws that can be enforced to such an extent that you have such a thing as a "drug free school zone"?

Now a handgun is about the size of the palm of your hand....there have been millions of them out there....and they can be had for relatively short money.

So given the "success" of the enforcement on laws that totally ban pot, how successful is a total ban on guns going to be? And what level of police intrusion into your private life and space will be required to enforce such a total gun ban (let alone money and manpower).

Now if the police fail to 100% ban the laws that ban pot, what are the consequences? Law breakers will still get pot....and they'll still get stoned...and many will still turn to harder drugs....and many may commit crimes against law abiding citizens to fund their habits, and many will cause terrible accidents with innocent victims. Law abiding citizens will not have pot and will largely (accept for the victims of crime and negligence) live their life as normal.

Now if the police fail to enforce a 100% ban on guns what are the consequences? Law breakers will still get guns and they'll still use guns in crimes....BUT....they'll do so with greater boldness, knowing all of their law abiding victims will be unarmed. And all the good dubbies out their will no longer have the best tools available to protect they're property and lives.

So people are out there calling for the government to ban guns every day. But these gun bans are not likely to be 100% enforceable. If they are not 100% enforced, they will put honest people in serious jeopardy. And if the government attempted to seriously enforce them, it would require a huge infringement on everyone’s liberties.

Such total ban gun control makes no sense at all because it is un-enforceable, would require huge infringement on personal liberties, and would empower criminals while making law abiders very vulnerable. Not to mention a little know thing called the Constitution of the United States of America, which is the supposed to be THE law of the law.

For cryin’ out loud....the government tried to "infringe liberties" by tapping international phone calls into the U.S.A. in the name of protecting it's citizenry from the very real threat of terrorism and everyone screamed bloody murder. Just what the heck are they gonna say when the police show up to search every home and car on the block for illegal guns, followed that night by criminal gangs of home invaders, rapist and murderers?

 

[260Rem700CBM]

NJ did do something the very next business day. My LGS (local gun shop) told me that the state police came in and did some investigating on Monday (as they did at all the NJ LGSs). He wouldn't mention any particulars, but said it was a 'show-the-flag' effort so they (the staties) could point to their hard work when the media inquired. Good job of closing the barn door after the cows are out. Our draconian NJ guns laws certainly do not get in the way of any of these folks. Only in the way of those of us who are law-abiding.