NJ State Gun Law - applying for permit tomorrow

[dcal]

My apologies if this is in the wrong section of the forum.

So I went to my local PD to get the applications for my handgun permit to buy. When I got home and started filling everything out, I decided to cross check with some info I found online. There were two sort sketchy things I noticed, and I'm wondering if you guys have any ideas how I should handle myself whilst getting fingerprinted tomorrow, as this will come up.

First the info regarding the "discrepancies"

At the bottom of the "What to bring with you" cover sheet on the package I got, it says, "Expect a long period of time for processing, do not call for status updates unless more than 6 months time has elapsed."

So this struck me as strange, because I know the waiting period is 30 days, and I did some searching and found this,

http://www.njguns.com/permit.htm

5. How long does it take to process my application? State statutes mandate that a New
Jersey applicant be processed (granted or denied) in 30 days. Thats the law.

2C:58-3(f). Purchase of firearms

"...the licensing authority who shall investigate the same and, unless good cause for the denial thereof appears, shall grant the permit or the identification card, or both, if application has been made therefor, within 30 days from the date of receipt of the application for residents of this State and within 45 days for nonresident applicants. A permit to purchase a handgun shall be valid for a period of 90 days from the date of issuance and may be renewed by the issuing authority for good cause for an additional 90 days."



Some municipalities take months to process applications. This is an illegal process
which as been propagated due to the lack of people challenging the system. If you don't
want to wait months for your permit, you don't have to. Take your municipality to court
and demand your application be processed according to State statutes.

I cross referenced it here:
NJ State Legislation
where it states the same as above.

Now I realize that I can just get a lawyer to help me out, but I'd like to avoid litigation at all costs, and like to be as "nice" of a guy as possible. I respect the LEOs in my town, and would like to remain on good terms with them. And I'd expect that crying lawyer would raise some eyebrows.

So I am wondering if you guys have any suggestions on what I should say before it comes to, "well you'll be hearing from my lawyer."

Also, how should I react when asked this, "Why does a woman (black man, senior citizen, handicapped person, nice person like you, etc.) need a gun anyway?"

As I'm pretty sure this will be the first question out of the officer's mouth when I protest 6 months.

The other less pressing "discrepancy" is the law state there should only be two applications, but there is a 3rd background check consent form written in the city's letter head. Which I thought was covered in the state's applications. This just maybe a supplemental consent form to save the PD from some legal thing, and since I'm waiving the right to do it anyway, there's not problem doing it twice.

 

[Autolycus]

You imply that it is disrespectful of you to threaten to sue a PD for not issuing a permit in the time that the law has given them. They are breaking the law by not issuing it to you in 30 days.

The fact that they are saying that by suing them it will only make the permit arrive sooner speaks volumes. I dont think that the permit that handles firearms would necessarily have anything to do with the department or city's attorney.

I would apply, and hten sue if it was not issued within the legal time limit.

 

[dcal]

I agree that once the 30 days go by I will be taking them to court. I guess I was hoping to hint at the fact that they shouldn't even try to drag their feet because I know what's up, as it seems it's their (and other) departments' policy to drag their feet by default.

I will be asking the officer about the statement at the end of the form about the 6 months tomorrow, just looking for some comeback lines when they try to put up the wall.

 

[ilbob]

before you get your shorts in an uproar, ask around at local gun shops and see what the typical wait actually is. it may be that someone put the 6 months thing on the form to reduce calls, and that is not a typical time frame to get approved.

 

[dcal]

Stopping by the gun shop is a great idea. Thanks.

I asked a couple friends that got the permits years ago, and both said they got a hard time from their respective PDs about the 30 days, and they kept asking why they needed it. I'm sure I'm just being paranoid. Thanks for the replies guys.

 

[Wynder]

Also, how should I react when asked this, "Why does a woman (black man, senior citizen, handicapped person, nice person like you, etc.) need a gun anyway?"

For the lawful defense of myself and my family.

Plain and simple.

Does it make you feel safer? Not really, but it should make you feel prepared in the event that you're attacked and your feel as though your life is in imminent danger.

PS. Good luck, I hear it's very *very* difficult to get a license and even more so for non-residents. I'm interested in hearing how it goes. As I live in Delaware, I'm currently on month 3.5 of my process.

 

[S4Lee]

I'm in the process for applying for my FID card and permit to purchase in NJ. In my municipality, I had to fill out the Mental Health check form in front of the desk officer at the police station (which I think is actually stated in the statutes or on the form, so OK....). Afterwards, I was given the application, 2 'recommendation' forms to be filled out by people I know, and a short instruction sheet on police letterhead. I then had to wait ~5 weeks before getting a call that I "was not crazy", as the lady who called put it, and I could call and make an appt w/ the detective squad to get the fingerprints done, at which time I would hand in the application.

The instructions I got with the form said that I needed a Money Order for $54 when I submitted the application, and when I called the detective squad to make the appt, I asked how many permits does the $54 cover, at which point I was told I can only apply for 2 at time (which, as far as I have been able to determine, is not true). So, $5 for the FID, $4 for 2 permits, and $45 for the fingerprinting / background check. The local PD does fingerprinting for background checks each week on a particular evening, and I made an appt to be there last week. When I showed up (right on time), the desk seargent said the only guy that could do it just left. Going to try again this week and see what happens.

So, so far I'm about 6 weeks into the "30-day limit" as far as I'm concerned. Note, however, that I haven't yet submitted the actual application, just the mental health form. I don't know when the actual 30 days starts ticking, but if one was willing to pay the fees, I don't see why they couldn't collect both forms, collect the fee, and process the mental health and criminal background checks concurrently, instead of sequentially.

Oh, and the kicker - the instruction sheet on police letterhead actually states that one should expect to wait 6-8 weeks from the time of the fingerprinting! So, basically, they're telling you up front that the law will be disregarded.

 

[dcal]

In my municipality, it seems I can hand it all in at once, for that at least I can be thankful. I should be fingerprinted tomorrow (they have two days with 3 hour windows in the middle of the day when you can get printed and tomorrow is one of them).

The instruction sheet I have also states that I shouldn't even bother checking status for 6 months.

I just spoke to some guys on my motorcycle forum, and one said 3 months minimum, another guy 6 months, to one guy who has been waiting a year.

Interesting... I knew it was difficult in this state, I hadn't realized it was that difficult.

 

[dcal]

PS. Good luck, I hear it's very *very* difficult to get a license and even more so for non-residents. I'm interested in hearing how it goes. As I live in Delaware, I'm currently on month 3.5 of my process.

Wynder, and here I always thought DE was pretty lax on their restrictions. There's huge gun store just past the border on the way out of NJ... I had just assumed it was DE wagging it in our faces.

 

[Bill2e]

All this it to just buy a hand gun? WOW!

 

[S4Lee]

It's pretty much 'the process', handgun OR long gun. The FID is forever and allows for long gun purchases, but you basically go through this again if you want to buy an additional handgun.

 

[geekWithA.45]

Yes, the statutes do talk about certain time limits on various permits, but the State Courts have thrown them out, holding in a case that it was "in the state's interest" to allow the police as much time as they liked to perform the background checks, essentially nullifying any venue for redressing your grievances in the matter.

They jerked my chain for almost a year, and made themselves an eternal enemy in the process.

Sorry.

 

[DontBurnMyFlag]

you didnt happen to come into my department today did you? haha. a few kids were in and I gave them all the paperwork. tried making them feel good about the process, then compared our stupid laws to those of pennsylvania.


*important information below*

even my detective said by law it should take 30 days, and its actually the State (Trenton) that holds it for that long. Our department finishes our background check and processing within a week.

Sueing the department, or threatening to do so, will get you no where. Its all in the state. and I dont know what your options are there.

Our department is only a small part of the whole process.

 

[dcal]

you didnt happen to come into my department today did you? haha. a few kids were in and I gave them all the paperwork. tried making them feel good about the process, then compared our stupid laws to those of pennsylvania.

Haha, nah I don't think it was me, I came in by myself this morning, and I don't think I can still pass as a kid (30)... I wasn't intending to sue the department, more like using a lawyer to push the process along. Thinking there was some leg I would have to stand on with the dept.

As I'm reading more about it I'm seeing that the local guys do a background check (I've lived in Jersey my whole life, how long could it take, haha) and just pass the paper work over to the state police. Where I think they contact the FBI and such. And I'd imagine the FBI interaction is less than efficient.

So what are you seeing as an average time for the permit to get processed?

 

[Tom609]

A lot depends on the attitude of your local PD. In my town (rural south Jersey) they were very polite. I was told to come in any time of day or night and an officer would do the fingerprints. It took me 5 weeks from start to finish. I called after 5 weeks, was told they'd check into it and then I got a call two days later telling me to come in and pick up the paperwork. By the way, you can get 3 pistol permits. A friend in a neighboring town was made to wait over six months. It's really the luck of the draw.

 

[v35]

Once you finally obtain your permit to purchase you have a limited time to actually conduct the purchase. If you don't exercise the purchase within this period of time you have to start the application all over again. That's why my local PD advised me to specify a large quantity (was it four? Six? I don't remember, but I know it was more than two).

I recall the period of time to make the purchase was only 30 days. Is this right?

In any event NJ makes it simply impossible to capitalize on a good deal should one present itself, and that's the only way I've ever bought a gun.

 

[dcal]

It's valid for 90 days.

 

[mekender]

can we say "conspiracy to violate your second amendment rights?"

how about contacting the NRA and seeing if one of their lawyers/lobbyists would broach the issue with the powers that be in the state government... after all it is your right, not your privilege to keep and bear arms

 

[Autolycus]

The NRA does not really seem to care about a few states and municipalities in my opinion. Those being: Chicago, Illinois, New Jersey, New York City, New York, California, and Massachusettes. If the NRA would lobby much more aggessively in one of these states/cities (concentrate all of their efforts on one area) they could probably change things for the better. I am not sure how much but I doubt it could get much worse.

 

[Mannix]

Man, and I thought having to wait 7 days or pay $100 for a permit was bad.

 

[geekWithA.45]

The NRA does not really seem to care about a few states and municipalities in my opinion.

As a former subject of NJ, I used to be entirely offended that the NRA had essentially triaged NJ off its radar.

Then, after I did a lot of research into the demographics and political dynamics of NJ, I came to understand that to belief the NRA -could- save the people of NJ was entirely erroneous.

Gunowners in NJ are pretty much the smallest identifiable voting block, and they're simply too small to make a difference in the face of the opposition that is well organized and funded.

NJ is, for the forseeable future, a hopeless case, and there is nothing the NRA or NJ gunowners can do about it.

How it came to be that way is a case study we should all be familiar with, and an object lesson as to what -can- happen when people fail to value, transmit, and jealously guard their rights.

 

[romma]

There's huge gun store just past the border on the way out of NJ... I had just assumed it was DE wagging it in our faces.

I think I saw that shop last year on our way to VA Beach...

It has "GUNS" on its roof right?

On a more to the point if it were me and it went past the 30 days, I would take it to court... Remember, nice guys finish last.

 

[dcal]

It has "GUNS" on its roof right?

That's the one!!!

 

[v35]

It's valid for 90 days.

So the law states one's application must be processed in 30 days, and is then valid for a subsequent 90 days.

...the State Courts have thrown (time limit statutes) out, holding in a case that it was "in the state's interest" to allow the police as much time as they liked to perform the background checks, essentially nullifying any venue for redressing your grievances in the matter.

So in effect, the application will take about a year, but is valid for the same 90 days. Consider the effect if a Rendell-styled "one gun a month" law were passed. The effect will be three guns a year, max.

Such is the problem with "reasonable restrictions". Reasonable restrictions, justly debated and passed into law, become unreasonable, but just as legal, when put into practice.

What a mess.

 

[scout26]

The NRA does not really seem to care about a few states and municipalities in my opinion.

It doesn't matter how many lobbyists we have in Springfield. What matters is the number of Phone Calls, Letters, E-mails and Constituents who hound their elected reps.

It's not the NRA's job to defend your rights, it's yours. I'm the NRA, not some guy in a fancy suit roaming the halls and gladhanding in the Capitol. If you're waiting for someone else to do it for you, then you might as well sign up for HillaryObamaEdwardscare, sew the little gold star (or red gun) on your clothing and get into the cattle car to be sent off for either Re-Education or "Sonderbeihandlung".

[/Rant OFF]