No Guns for Folks On Anti-Depressants?

[30 cal slob]

yeesh, i want to jump off a bridge after reading through this thread. (j/k....)

if policy makers are going to consider further restrictions on people undergoing treatment for mental illness, the issues put forth in this thread need to be considered and weighed.

IANAD ( ) so this thread is an education for me. i had no idea how many off-label uses anti-depressants meds have!

 

[RealGun]

Don't we already know the answer here? "ANYONE who would want to carry a gun must be crazy. Only cops should have guns."

Therefore, no one gets to carry except the government's own.

Notions of classifying people as fit to carry is just a nibble in the direction of ruling out carry for everyone. There is a lot of "playing God" in that, and it's very exhilarating. Another gun control law is just another "high" for the antigunner.

The crazy ones are the blissninnies.

Like in many things, insurance companies make the rules. When I bought health insurance, I was called with a question about my application. They noted my treatment for depression. I told them I had not been hospitalized and had not missed any work. The answer was "thank you, that's what we needed to know". Nevertheless, there is a mental health treatment exclusion on the policy, the usual practice for pre-existing conditions. The question, I believe, was whether they would cover me at all.

I submit that being hospitalized or missing work are valid measures of how affected someone is by depression. But just like with the question of felons out of prison, if not hospitalized under someone else's care, one has the right of self defense.

 

[bowfin]

bowfin, have you had any friends or family involved with this issue? If not, I respectfully ask that you consider reserving judgement.

Yes, I have had two brothers and two nephews who were diagnosed as having "depression"and IN EVERY CASE, their problems didn't go away with a handful of "Happy Pills". Depression went away when they either fixed the problems or learned how to deal with them.

The brother who was depressed because he hated his job got better when he got a different job.

The brother who was depressed because he left his wife and kid and moved across the country for his high school sweetheart got better when he got off the sauce and moved back to salvage his relationship with his daughter.

The one nephew had to get a figurative boot up his arse by a court appointed counselor and told that no one could (or should) feel good about themselves or their life when they screw it up so thoroughly on a regular basis.

The last nephew took it personally that the Navy put him in the "too screwed up to join" pile because of his "Happy Pills", and decided the doctor who gave them to him was a quack, and got on with his life.

Depression is one of the Good Lord's ways of saying something in your life sucks and you need to change it. If he wanted you to change by swallowing something, he would have made a Prozac berry bush...

 

[RealGun]

Depression is one of the Good Lord's ways of saying something in your life sucks and you need to change it. If he wanted you to change by swallowing something, he would have made a Prozac berry bush...

Not!!! Pills are prescribed to correct brain chemistry. Depression is not necessarily a reaction to life, but it can cause one to view things negatively. Treatment with medication is not simply because a person can't "get a grip".

 

[bowfin]

Not!!! Pills are prescribed to correct brain chemistry

...so, you are saying that these pills are prescribed only after various samples of the brain's chemicals are taken from the patient and analyzed in a lab, to make sure it is indeed a chemical imbalance? I mean, that is the only sure way to know that it is really a brain chemistry problem, isn't it?

 

[armoredman]

After reading this thread, and the very vocal opposition to the idea, I cannot help but wonder if Feinslime or upChuckie will introduce it in today's session.

 

[redneckdan]

I would be steadfastly against this. I take a low dose antidepressent to help control IBS, a stomach disorder. The antidepressent blocks seretonin from over activating my stomach motility. Sounds like a backdoor gun ban to me.

 

[bowfin]

I am okay with people on various medications to treat mental disorders if they get an okay from the treating physician.

Those being treated shouldn't have a problem with the guy they let be in charge of their brain be the guy in charge of their guns also.

 

[RealGun]

...so, you are saying that these pills are prescribed only after various samples of the brain's chemicals are taken from the patient and analyzed in a lab, to make sure it is indeed a chemical imbalance? I mean, that is the only sure way to know that it is really a brain chemistry problem, isn't it?

That seems a strawman argument. It's a whole lot easier to prescribe the meds and see if they help.

 

[RealGun]

Those being treated shouldn't have a problem with the guy they let be in charge of their brain be the guy in charge of their guns also. - bowfin

Is it your intent to be disrespectful here? Perhaps you should back off.

 

[30 cal slob]

i am in charge of and responsible for my brain regardless of where it may get a tune-up.

 

[bowfin]

Is it your intent to be disrespectful here? Perhaps you should back off.

Not in the least, either for the "disrespectful" part or the "back off".

If one is to the point that they cannot handle day to day living without a doctor's intervention, is that person capable of deciding if they are okay to drive, pilot a plane, run a punch press, or own a gun? I would think a person would take a doctor's advice if he said "Don't drink dairy products while you are taking this or that." or "Don't drive or operate heavy machinery four hours after taking this." Why would it be any different if he said "It might be best to not go shooting or have a handgun until we get a handle on this depression thing."?

 

[RealGun]

If one is to the point that they cannot handle day to day living without a doctor's intervention, is that person capable of deciding if they are okay to drive, pilot a plane, run a punch press, or own a gun? I would think a person would take a doctor's advice if he said "Don't drink dairy products while you are taking this or that." or "Don't drive or operate heavy machinery four hours after taking this." Why would it be any different if he said "It might be best to not go shooting or have a handgun until we get a handle on this depression thing."? - bowfin

Thanks for the clarification.

I have had the experience, and don't think a counselor or psychiatrist managing meds is going to raise the issue of suicide beyond the question of whether one ever considered it. I don't believe I was asked about whether I had any firearms either. One risks an indirect suggestion to go buy a gun while he still can.

If it is your understanding that the meds cause aberrant behavior toward others, you should just drop this until learning more about it, both careful to separate the context of various mental disorders and understanding that very different drugs may be used for treatment of each.

Let's leave the counseling to the pros.

 

[ingram]

Definitely not.

I was taking anti-depressants for a while to help deal with anxiety, not being depressed at all. These drugs have multiple uses, anti-depressant does not equal depressed person.

I eventually stopped taking them because of a rare side effect that made me sweat more than normal and it was too bothersome to continue. Therapy has been helpful, and in my mind should always be taken in conjunction with any drug when dealing with these sorts of issues.

but unfortunately I have reverted to my old habit of always wearing a tin foil hat =(

 

[Justin]

How about this:

Public policies shouldn't be written and dictated in reaction to exceedingly rare, high-profile events.

 

[RealGun]

Public policies shouldn't be written and dictated in reaction to exceedingly rare, high-profile events. - Justin

I agree but was picturing Sarah Brady's reaction to that axiom. Sympathy for her did a lot of damage.

 

[gm]

labeling...


Not everybody has the same tolerance for being able to deal with certain situations and some folks take meds to help them cope with a death in the family,loss of a coworker,financial instability,a robbery or traumatic event that leaves them feeling defenseless or a injury that leaves them without an arm or an leg.Some take them to help them cope with other health problems,both serious and minor.It does not make them "weak" to seek treatment.


There are already laws in place to cover people who operate or attempt to operate machinery or weapons while under the influence of meds that impare their judgment and co-ordination,this is why there is a drug test at an accident.There are also already laws to cover criminally insane and those committed involuntarily by a judge to a hospital because they cannot make rational decisions.


Throwing everyone who is or has ever taken an antidepressant for an event in their lives to being dangerous and irrational is labeling,over generalizing and absurd.

 

[Neo-Luddite]

At least one media source stated that the FBI had found no record of anti-depressant prescriptions in the killers history. *MY*surprise was that someone is keeping tabs on scripts other than narcotics? I think it was ABC news.

If true, it sounds like someone is laying the ground work to add a new block of citizens to the no-gun club. The metal health angle of this story is just coming up now. And guess what? His privacy was respected and the institution 'did nothing' (or little) as a result.

Don't get me wrong--I'm in no way saying that needing psych meds should in any way in disqualify someone like a felony conviction or what have you. But we need to be warry. The anti's are looking for an angle to work--the mag capacity was the first they have gone at but it is not flying. They will seek mental health restrictions next---and THEY will inform us all what sane SHOULD be.

(To Big Calhoun: It's good to hear things are going better for you. Take care and Best Wishes- Mike.)

 

[Geister]

Public policies shouldn't be written and dictated in reaction to exceedingly rare, high-profile events.

By far one of the best quotes I've ran across.

 

[RealGun]

Throwing everyone who is or has ever taken an antidepressant for an event in their lives to being dangerous and irrational is labeling,over generalizing and absurd. - gm

I think you also belabor a stereotype, because medication is not only treatment for ones reaction to events in their life. Many people have chronic melancholia and benefit from boosting the brain chemistry that controls that condition. If you contrast someone who just never seems to accomplish much or even smile easily and someone known as very dynamic, productive, and outgoing, you are probably observing a significant difference in inherent seratonin levels, all of no particular credit to a difference in character or any other external influence on personality.

 

[RealGun]

At least one media source stated that the FBI had found no record of anti-depressant prescriptions in the killers history.

I think what will ultimately take the heat and cause policy changes is why this guy was referred for counseling to no avail.

 

[NM234]

I think it would be ridiculous to stop people on anti-depressants from buying a gun.

If you look at how the pyschological manual has grown in the past twenty years everything is a mental illness, hell almost everyone in here could probably get the label attached to them if they went to a pyschiatrist.

I think that only those that have a mental illness that causes them to be dangerous to others should be denied (most of the "mentally ill" are not dangerous, for example eating too much can be considered a mental illness). So only those who are dangerously mentally ill or felons convicted of violent crimes (for example I don't think someone who shoplifted $100 15 years ago should be denied the right to bear arms; actually in MA, one of the most restrictive states, a felon who has been out of prison and off parole can have their right to bear arms reinstated after 7 years and an evaluation) should be denied that right.

 

[Machete]

I take antidepressants for my anxiety disorder, so that seems very stupid to me considering everyone who takes antidepressants don't take them for depression. The question would be better phrased "should people who suffer from chronic depression be allowed to own firearms".

 

[RealGun]

The question would be better phrased "should people who suffer from chronic depression be allowed to own firearms".

I believe the question was raised in the context of recent events, so I would say the question is whether they would be a danger to anyone else. Such folks are not typically aggressive, so there seems to be some confusion about why we should care if they have guns.

 

[stevekl]

The only problem is doctors prescribe meds like candy these days.

And that doesn't mean that some people don't need them.

As for postpartum depression it is almost universal, it was handled for centuries without antidepressants. I don't know how or why these meds became so necessary now.

"As for broken bones it is almost universal. It was handled for centuries without casts and crutches. I don't know how or why casts and crutches became so neccessary now."

Bu if you take anti depressants it means you can and will become unstable without the pills.

Huh, that's weird. I quit taking anti-depressants a year or so ago and I don't remember becoming unstable.

Bowfin, your use of the term "happy pills" betrays the fact that you, like a lot of people, don't understand what anti-depressant medicine does. It does NOT produce euphoria. It does NOT give the user a narcotic-like feeling of unearned happiness. In other words, it's not a cheap, easy road to happiness like you think it is.

What it DOES do is "even you out". Depression is a disorder. It's not made up, it's not "all in your head". It makes your brain not work the way it should work. All it does is give depressed people the kind of working brain that non-depressed people already have.

Happiness is something that is achieved by using the tool which is your mind. A normal person has a working mind/tool, and uses it, WITH effort and creativity and work, to achieve what he wants: happiness.

A depressed person has a defective mind. Even with great effort he can not achive his goal of happiness. Anti-depressants fixes the mind, which allows the person, with normal effort and work, to achieve his goal. It is not a substitute for the mind. A person who takes a pill can not achieve happiness without effort. All the pill does is give him the working mind that non-depressed people already have.