No pressure from oversize flash holes

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spitballer

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It was suggested to me the other day by somebody I don't know very well that if I experienced excessive pressure while using cases with oversize flash holes that it wasn't because of the oversize holes but rather because the cases were over charged.

I'm no so sure I buy this, and it seems like a dangerous suggestion to me.

Anyone?
 
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Andrew is correct. It's the internal pressure that causes problems, not flashhole size.

If you're trying to determine pressure by what primers look like, that's not a true indicator of pressure. For one thing, almost all primers containing Diazodinitrophenol (DDNP) will exhibit extreme flattening, which isn't due to the pressure inside the case, but rather it's the higher brisance of the priming compound. The primer exits the primer pocket at a faster rate than Lead Styphnate priming, so the primer cup flattens out against the bolt face before the pressure from the burning powder has a chance to drive the case back and reseat the primer.

Hope this helps.

Fred
 
+1

There are a lot of 'lead-free' handgun cases being reloaded with the exact same powder charges used in standard cases.

And the lead-free cases have 1/8" flash holes.

It makes no difference.

rc
 
RC, this may be a joe sausage head question... But would the larger flash holes give a better powder ignition or burn, allowing the primer more space to the powder ? Sorry if this is off topic, I'm really curious :)
 
No pressure from oversize flash holes

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It was suggested to me the other day by somebody I don't know very well that if I experienced excessive pressure while using cases with oversize flash holes that it wasn't because of the oversize holes but rather because the cases were over charged.

I'm no so sure I buy this, and it seems like a dangerous suggestion to me.

Anyone?

"Anyone" In 10 words or less? I know of very disciplined reloaders that start with uniform flash holes. They drill the flash holes to the same diameter, they do not oversize them, they match the smaller diameters to the larger diameter. There are not many tools I have used that operate under pressure, high and or low, that do not have an orifice to control flow. The flash hole is a restriction to flow going both ways. I apply the leaver policy, when it comes to flash holes I leav-er the way I found-er.

I have a flash hole gage, it does not get a lot of use, but, the flash hole is in the center of all that PSI, when wondering when the first signs of pressure appears and I measured the diameter of the flash hole before firing, the diameter of the flash hole will indicate the beginning of high pressure/case head expansion. I have fired cases that had flash holes that were so large the gage only touched one side of the flash hole.

F. Guffey
 
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It seems that the evidence of increased pressure from oversize flash holes is largely anecdotal, but I'm not gonna go experimenting with this one.

Thanks again.
 
If you try to use flash hole dia as a pressure gage, one would first have to go through all the brass and uniform them all to one standard size. I know the GI brass I use varies wildly in flash hole size and some are not even centered.
 
I reload a lot of .45 ACP Winchester cases, white box label "Win Clean." They have been using both the standard and larger flash holes for some years. My cases are a mixed bag of both sizes.
When I first noticed these, I went to the Winchester web page, and the reloading FAQs stated that the larger flash holes make no difference in the reloadability of the cases. This was at lest 5-6 years ago, and in all the reloading I've done since, I make no attempt to sort them, and I've noticed NO difference when shooting.
 
Re: Would the larger flash holes give a better powder ignition or burn?

blarby - "Larger? No. Directed, yes. Works very well with magnum powders for optimal burn."

What did you mean by "directed"? Also, if you are suggesting that larger flash holes are better with magnum powders, how large should the hole be? Thanks for any help you can give me on this.....Sabe
 
Probably of no significance to our ammo but...
Think of a rocket engine--the gasses are pushed through a throat, a small throat, so there is better "push" due to high speed HOT gasses. Make the throat larger, and more but slower/cooler gasses come through.
If you want all the powder to ignite at once, you want a small flash hole/throat so hot high velocity high temperature gasses from primer fills the case.
In fact, one could picture the large flash hole dropping gas pressure/temperature to the point where a powder like 296/H110 would not get hot enough to burn and you would end up with a barrel full of semi-molten powder--just like a too-low charge weight can cause.
action/reaction and gas pressure law
 
It seems that the evidence of increased pressure from oversize flash holes is largely anecdotal, but I'm not gonna go experimenting with this one.

Thanks again.

Just on the side, I have learnt that the problem with developing loads, personal experience and experience through mentoring others, is that many hand loaders simply cannot shoot well enough to prove / exploit the minute gains of these nth degree "improvements. Hand loaders often think that if they alter the jump, uniform the primer hole, uniform the primer pocket, turn the neck, neck size only, weight and sort brass etc. that their groups will miraculously close into a tight on hole clover leaf.

Many of these above techniques were honed by the 600 and 900yd shooters who would see differences. In the accuracy chain up until about 300yds, assuming you and the rifle are capable then, charge weight, bullet selection and bullet jump seem to be the big ticket numbers to getting one well sub MOA.

Personally I spent hours after hours in the beginning of my reloading career with new bullets, changing primers, you name it, when in reality at that point of my shooting experience I could only shoot 1.5MOA. After some time I realised that at 100yds precious little can go wrong, 0.1gr. charge weight difference would not be noticeable in its vertical displacement, a 2gr. case weigh difference translates to much less than that as the brass is 7X heavier than water and therefor when calculating internal case volumes in H2O that that would translate to 0.3gr, case capacity difference which is not material in the equation.

No technique or component was closing my groups. Then one day I read of a member on a local forum shooting factory ammo (which is scoffed at here due to it apparent variable quality). The best he could do was 1.5" @ 100m. In passing he was told of a National Junior Champion who happened to be on the range that day. So off this feller goes and ask the youngster to please have three shots through with his rifle, confident that he will now finally prove how poor the local ammo was. The youngster shot a 1 hole cloverleaf ...............

It was then that I realised that there was no substitute for practice. In subsequent months the more I practiced the better my reloads got (not that they changed mind).

Now this encouragement may not be for you / fit your shooting / reloading profile, if so ignore it. I encourage hand loaders now to practice more than they play with all these different techniques. I am now at the point where I can shoot 0.5MOA consistently, when on form. And it is only now that I can prove that some of the finer nuances of case prep simply have no / not enough impact at the distances I shoot at to warrant the effort.
 
Just on the side, I have learnt that the problem with developing loads, personal experience and experience through mentoring others, is that many hand loaders simply cannot shoot well enough to prove / exploit the minute gains of these nth degree "improvements. Hand loaders often think that if they alter the jump, uniform the primer hole, uniform the primer pocket, turn the neck, neck size only, weight and sort brass etc. that their groups will miraculously close into a tight on hole clover leaf.

Many of these above techniques were honed by the 600 and 900yd shooters who would see differences. In the accuracy chain up until about 300yds, assuming you and the rifle are capable then, charge weight, bullet selection and bullet jump seem to be the big ticket numbers to getting one well sub MOA.

Personally I spent hours after hours in the beginning of my reloading career with new bullets, changing primers, you name it, when in reality at that point of my shooting experience I could only shoot 1.5MOA. After some time I realised that at 100yds precious little can go wrong, 0.1gr. charge weight difference would not be noticeable in its vertical displacement, a 2gr. case weigh difference translates to much less than that as the brass is 7X heavier than water and therefor when calculating internal case volumes in H2O that that would translate to 0.3gr, case capacity difference which is not material in the equation.

No technique or component was closing my groups. Then one day I read of a member on a local forum shooting factory ammo (which is scoffed at here due to it apparent variable quality). The best he could do was 1.5" @ 100m. In passing he was told of a National Junior Champion who happened to be on the range that day. So off this feller goes and ask the youngster to please have three shots through with his rifle, confident that he will now finally prove how poor the local ammo was. The youngster shot a 1 hole cloverleaf ...............

It was then that I realised that there was no substitute for practice. In subsequent months the more I practiced the better my reloads got (not that they changed mind).

Now this encouragement may not be for you / fit your shooting / reloading profile, if so ignore it. I encourage hand loaders now to practice more than they play with all these different techniques. I am now at the point where I can shoot 0.5MOA consistently, when on form. And it is only now that I can prove that some of the finer nuances of case prep simply have no / not enough impact at the distances I shoot at to warrant the effort.


I agree with this post. The only NOTICEABLE improvement in messing with flash holes I've seen on paper was to deburr the inside of the case around the flash hole. LC brass seems to be one of the worst offenders for having huge burrs left over from punching the flash hole.
 
If you try to use flash hole dia as a pressure gage, one would first have to go through all the brass and uniform them all to one standard size. I know the GI brass I use varies wildly in flash hole size and some are not even centered.

I have a flash hole gage,

It does not get a lot of work. all I am required to do is measure the diameter of the flash hole, there is also the possibility of matching flash hole diameters. I have put test loads together that made testing the diameter a waste of time.

F. Guffey
 
Just on the side, I have learnt that the problem with developing loads, personal experience and experience through mentoring others, is that many hand loaders simply cannot shoot well enough to prove / exploit the minute gains of these nth degree "improvements. Hand loaders often think that if they alter the jump, uniform the primer hole, uniform the primer pocket, turn the neck, neck size only, weight and sort brass etc. that their groups will miraculously close into a tight on hole clover leaf.

Shhhh.........

Next you'll be telling us all that not every rifle is capable of sharpshooting, sheesh. :D

In the pursuit of perfection, sometimes we forget that the biggest variable is the nut behind the bang switch- and that it varies generally far more than components do.
 
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