No self defense in Canada?

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I used to have a job taking bus loads of college students from Boston to Montreal for weekends of drunken debauchery.

One time a local urchin thought he would rob a pair of kids from my group. He pulled out a small folding knife and told them to give him their money.

They laughed at him and said 'Is that all you have? A knife?' before proceeding to beat the piss out of him. Bad idea to try and rough up a group of South Boston hockey players with a pocket knife...
 
anyone else ever get the feeling that our governments are attempting to become the only armed people in our countries? and then of coarse realize the threat that poses...
 
Yes. When people in the government make comments that they are afraid of citizens with guns, that both makes me happy, and at the same time, also realize that the fact that they are nervous about normal people having guns, realize that they very likely do not have my best interests, nor the constitution's (which is more the point) at heart.

How's that for a run-on?
 
anyone else ever get the feeling that our governments are attempting to become the only armed people in our countries? and then of coarse realize the threat that poses...

Normal throughout history.
No small number of people ruling over a large number of people wants the large number of people to have effective weapons.
This goes back thousands of years as far back as recorded human history.

In feudal times even crossbows were outlawed many places because it allowed a peasant the capability to pierce the armor of a knight with minimal skill. An ignorant simple peasant that had to spend most of their life toiling in the fields (not learning to fight, learning strategy or tactics etc) could defeat a knight trained in martial arts since boyhood.
This was a major threat.
When thousands of peasants would revolt a small force of knights could easily crush them. This kept the king and the aristocrats firmly in power. Anything that might change this balance could upset the entire system of government, where most had a lifetime of forced labor for the benefit of the few.


The few who rule over the many have never wanted the many to have anywhere near equality in martial capability or arms throughout all of human history.
They never will.
This is easy to understand.
If you made decisions for a living that made thousands happy, and pissed thousands off on a regular basis, would you feel safer if they were armed or disarmed?
If your bodyguards and forces at your disposal had capabilities and arms exceeding anything the masses had, or were merely equal to those of the masses?
Rulers always want to insure their forces can trump several times as many peasants. It is job security to know they can crush large numbers of peasants if necessary.


This is why the right to keep and bear arms had to be declared, it is something rulers naturally would be inclined against, and governments always naturally move against.
 
[qoute]You also can only use self defense if you have equal or lesser force, meaning you can't shoot someone if they only have a knife, etc. [/quote]

Where is that the law? If that is really the law in Canada, that is several steps removed from ye olde common law.

The law in my home state as explained to me is lethal force can be used in self defense if a reasonable person would be in fear of death or greivous bodily harm. Which is founded in common law.

My sister was attacked by a home invader, chased him off by producing a .357, detained his accomplice at gun point for arrest, the men were armed with brute size and strength, maybe a screwdriver. The idea that she could only use self defense with a gun if they had a gun is not law here.

Lethal force can be used if a reasonable person would be in fear of death or greivous bodily harm. There was no "equal or lesser force" doctrine mentioned in 4 hours class on state self defense law including a 45 minute video from the state AG explaining how prosecutors see self-defense with a handgun.

BTW most use of lethal force is brandishment-only: I have a gun, leave.
 
"You also can only use self defense if you have equal or lesser force, meaning you can't shoot someone if they only have a knife, etc."

Where is that the law? If that is really the law in Canada, that is several steps removed from ye olde common law

Kind of digging up an old thread but thought this would be a good case to add, and I'm not sure if that is actually part of the law but that's how it works here most of the time. And pretty much the only time a court rules in favor of what our constitution says is when it's for pot smokers or other socialist views.
Anyways one guy in Ontario is being recommended to spend time in jail and has had his guns and firearm license taken away for firing rounds in the direction of (while intentionally missing) criminals that were firebombing his house and his dog.

http://news.nationalpost.com/2011/01/20/man-faces-jail-after-protecting-home-from-masked-attackers/
 
For US residents who may not be familiar with the background:

Current Canadian Criminal Code provides for self defense and citizens arrest, but there are enough practical problems in how it's handled by prosecutors that clarification of circumstances in the law is needed. Past Canadian case law has affirmed specific examples of firearm-based self-defense. It's a fair bet that under current Canadian legislation, any use of a firearm for self-defense will result in multiple charges and a protracted court battle no matter how justified the circumstances.

Incidents of citizens arrest tend to go even more poorly.

Thus the move for new legislation...
 
I already posted this elsewhere, but it fit's this thread. Prime Minister Harper is submitting legislation that will allow for self defence, and citizens arrest as defences in Canada.

The prosection of the guy that shot at the people fire bombing his house was the reason. The PM called that "stupid".

Yeah I was reading on that earlier. Until yesterday all I could find in the news was about the citizens arrest part of the law because of that shop owner, it's good he's changing this too.
 
"You also can only use self defense if you have equal or lesser force, meaning you can't shoot someone if they only have a knife, etc."

Are you supposed to give your assailant a "sporting chance" and use only your hands and feet to defend yourself? It seems that the law doesn't take into account who is in "the wrong". A criminal assault is not a sporting event and you did not choose to perticipate and therefore should not be honour bound to fight fair.
 
okay, so my fiance is looking at going to grad school in Nova Scotia. I was okay enough with not being able to bring my own gun, but are you saying I can't even buy a gun or get a CCW permit once I live there?! What the crap is that?!
Hi Critical J,
Welcome to Canada.
You are NOT getting a CCW because they don't exist up here in any practical sense (I am an NRA life member in Canada and it's like holding your breath forever underwater, waiting for freedom to return to this place).
In theory, you can get an ATC-3 (authorisation to carry) but only a few dozen exist in the entire country of 33 million. None have been issued since the liberals were elected in 1994. And even IF you could find the application from the police (it is well hidden and even fellow gun owners I talk to are surprised to hear of its existence), you have to document at least 4 incidents in which you were assaulted with deadly force, and the incidents were documented by the police. IF you survive these 4 deadly assaults, they will then CONSIDER your application... and then reject it. That's the Canadian approach to civil liberties. They just legislate them out of existence.
But don't worry... the crime rate in Nova Scotia is low. You should be fine. Just think Canadian: "it can't happen to me!!!"
 
...you have to document at least 4 incidents in which you were assaulted with deadly force, and the incidents were documented by the police. IF you survive these 4 deadly assaults, they will then CONSIDER your application... and then reject it.


Wow.
 
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