Noise Levels for HD

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Chuck R.

Chuck R.

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A while back a poster stated something to the effect that shotgun’s had excessive muzzle blast/noise when fired indoors when compared to handguns. This struck a cord because I use a shotgun for HD and it ran contrary to what I’d experienced. So I did a little research, there’s not too much out there, but here’s a couple articles:

"The sound levels of firearms are about 125 to 140 dB for rimfire rifles, 140 to 150 dB for rimfire pistols... and 150 to 160 dB for centerfire rifles, pistols and shotguns"

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0BQY/is_2_48/ai_81477136/pg_1

This points out that all centerfire guns are about in the same noise range. Close, but not good enough. Then I stumbled upon this:

2007-03_06-5.jpg


http://www.hearingreview.com/issues/articles/2007-03_06.asp

Please note this chart represents peak impulse levels of standard police weapons taken at an indoor firing range. Notice that both the 9mm and .357 were measured as louder than the 12GA as were the .40 and .45 depending on the platform used.

The results pretty much confirmed the 1st article that all centerfires are about in the same range. The only caliber that really stood out is the .357 Mag.

Another "factor" that was cited in that thread was muzzle flash. Sorry I couldn't find anything on this. I have shot my Benelli quite a bit at night doing low-light training and as it doubles as my muskrat/beaver control gun, muzzle flash with my #1 buck or standard birdshot is a non-issue. Since I also use a weapon mounted light for HD, the flash isn't even noticeable.

For my use, I’ll stick with the shotgun, based on the chart, they all look to be pretty close. Decide for yourselves...........

Chuck
 
That is a great article. Looks like the Peltor tactical eletronic muffs would be a good investment. Do any of you use these? Are there better ones on the market? Thanks for the web site.
 
Don't forget that the dB scale is not linear, and sound energy doubles with every increase of 3 dB. So a noise of 160 dB produces over 8 times the sound energy (at your eardrum, for example) compared to noise rated at 150 dB. Another way of looking at this would be that a pair of ear muffs rated at 27 dB is twice as effective as a pair rated 24 dB.
 
To be honest, I never did understand the whole "which option is too loud for HD use" arguments. Personally, if I have to use a gun in defense of my life, the blown possibility of blown eardrums is the least of my worries.
 
To be honest, I never did understand the whole "which option is too loud for HD use" arguments.
Click to expand...

It would be nice to be able to hear your family members screaming for help, hear other attackers moving around, hear the police telling to to put down the weapon or they'll shoot... hearing has a lot of tactical uses.

So I hear.
 
True, but there's only so much you can control in such a situation. My point is simply that I'm unwilling to sacrifice any performance of a firearm designated for the defense of mine or my family's lives due to the volume of the blast. It seems a silly consideration. I've read multiple accounts from multiple individuals who have had to use their weapons in tight spaces, or who have accidentally shot themselves, etc that marvel at the complete lack of awareness of the shot even being fired. Adrenaline does amazing things in tough situations, including making one essentially oblivious to loud noises or extreme pain.
 
I'm no expert here, but I think hearing loss is due to prolonged exposure to loud noise. I don't think 2 or 3 loud shots from a real home defense episode is going to have much permanent effect. I could be wrong though. Either way, if I'm in a situation where I have to end an attacker's life, I'm not going to worry about it.

Anyway, take a close look at the graph. It doesn't go down to zero. This is a common trick to make things look like they are more different than they really are. If we saw the entire graph down to zero, each gun would look darn near equal...kinda hard to explain my point in words.
 
Leadhead - It's and idea, but you really have to ask yourself if it's worth the trouble it'd cause. Figure it like this - you hear a bump in the night, and end up shooting a goblin. All things considered, it's clearly a good shoot. However, there is a court case, and now you have to explain to a jury why you needed to use a pistol with a silencer to defend your home against poor defenseless lil goblin. You better bet the mouthpiece hired by the scumbag's family will rake you over the coals, and play up the silencer issue like you wouldn't believe. How many times do you see good guys using silencers in the movies or on tv? Virtually none. Couple that with the genberal public ranging anywhere from gun-ignorant to flat out anti, and you have a very, very tough road ahead of you.

Plus, considering the price and hassle involved in obtaining that supressor, do you really want to take the risk of losing it forever to your local PD's evidence room? I'll go with a relatively cheap, easily replaceable revolver or semi auto, thanks.

Jake - I think the issue we're dealing with is not so much long-term hearing damage, as it is temporary flash blindness or hearing loss due to a loud gunshot at night. I can see the other's points when it comes to this, I just happen to not exactly agree. It's pretty obvious that any loud noise, be it gunshot or otherwise will eventually damage one's hearing.
 
Leadhead said:
Kinda makes you consider a silencer on a pistol if it's legal where you live...
Click to expand...

Actually, it just serves to convince me that a SBR AR-15 with a 9mm upper and a good suppressor is an optimal HD weapon. If only I could scrape together the money. :( Until then, the m1911A1 and the 5 D cell Mag-Lite will have to suffice.

kingpin008 said:
However, there is a court case, and now you have to explain to a jury why you needed to use a pistol with a silencer to defend your home against poor defenseless lil goblin.
Click to expand...

This is a good argument in favor of living in a state with an implementation of castle doctrine that involves civil pre-emption. :D
 
From recent experience, 12 ga fired in a semi enclosed area (carport in this case) is REALLY FREAKIN LOUD and will leave your ears ringing for a good bit. I didn't even really hear the first 3 shots fired further out in the yard. Fired indoors, expect immediate hearing damage, at least in the short term. I consider this a fair trade for not being dead. I have been inside a room where a 40 caliber pistol was fired while I was not wearing hearing protection, and it was louder than the loudest loud thing being played over a really huge amplifier and speakers. Ok, maybe thats a little exageration, but it was painfully loud and not something I'd like to repeat without it being absolutely necesarry. When we shoot our shotgun quals on the indoor range you can feel the concussion of the blast. I'd like to avoid finding out what that sounds like without muffs...
 
Maybe a dumb question, but this information is for practicing only, right? (At least for me it is.)
Click to expand...

The point I was trying to counter was that a shotgun is a poor choice due to the noise level and muzzle flash.

The article indicates that the noise levels are pretty close and in a couple instances, the shotgun actually has less noise.

I guess it’s like the penetration debate, anything effective IS going to have penetration issues. Also, anything that’s going to be effective IS going to be LOUD.

It might be better to base your HD weapon selection on other criteria.

Chuck
 
Shoot a 12 gauge in a closed garage.

Post when your ears stop bleading or when you can actualy hear a conversation.
 
Shoot a 12 gauge in a closed garage.

Post when your ears stop bleading or when you can actualy hear a conversation.
Click to expand...

:rolleyes:

Well, I’ve fired a shotgun in doors and my ears didn’t bleed and yes, I could hear afterwards.

But tell me this, if the charts are correct, why would the shotgun be any worse than say a 9mm with a higher noise rating? The tests were done at an indoor range, same surroundings for each caliber.

Why should your ears bleed from the shotgun, but not the 9mm or worse yet the .357?

Chuck
 
Well I'm no expert, but I've watched a whole lot of hearing loss safety videos here at work and they all pretty much say that it's prolonged exposure that ruins hearing. Real loud peaks in sound aren't nearly as bad as say 10 years of loud machinery 8hrs a day. I'm not saying anything except that I don't think a couple rounds of anything indoors to save your life it worth crying about. Unless the gun/round you're shooting actually incapacitates you upon firing, just about every gun is going to make your ears ring...

As far as flash is concerned, I've shot every gun I own at night and none of them have any "blinding" flash (even the shotgun w/ 3" 00) other then the ported .357, they don't concern me.
 
Here’s another list of noise levels of different firearms (caveat emptor, it is from the internet):

http://www.freehearingtest.com/hia_gunfirenoise.shtml

Page 5 of this thread:

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=157804&page=5

…from about 1.5 years ago covers several of the issues in this thread. For those who can’t get enough.

Also, I seem to remember reading high pitch noise is more damaging to your hearing than low frequency. I think this is the reason the hedge car sound system to not make people in the car go deaf; they have giant bass speakers and keep the treble level low. And, I think this means a .223 rifle, with its higher pitch report is more dangerous to hearing then a lower pitch shotgun, even if they measure at the same decibel. Not sure about this, if I get time I’ll try to look it up to confirm/disprove…
 
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