Non LEO Taser use (TX)

[TexasRifleman]

Another thread talked about less-than-lethal options including OC and the Taser.

So what IS a Taser exactly? I don't mean how do they work, I mean what are they considered from a legal standpoint.

If I strap one of these things on does it have to be concealed? Unconcealed? Is it a weapon? It's too new for the statutes to cover it, and it clearly doesn't meet the definition of "firearm", so what the heck is it?

If I have one on my belt and it's noticed, any consequences from LE?

Their website gives the following, but it's still kinda vague to me:

TASER® energy weapon's are not considered firearms — they're legal to carry in most states without permits (including California). Restricted from citizen use in MA, RI, NY, NJ, WI, MI, HI and certain cities and counties

So tell me what happens if I strap the bad boy on and open carry it into the 7-11?
(not that I think that's a very smart idea mind you).

 

[dolanp]

In theory nothing happens to you. You might get hassled if a cop thinks it could be a real gun.

If the law doesn't address it then they can't tell you that you are unlawfully carrying a prohibited weapon.

 

[Car Knocker]

Given the number of deaths associated with the use of a Taser, I don't think "less-than-lethal" accurately describes Tasers.

 

[Billmanweh]

I was at CTD yesterday and they had Tasers for sale and also a demo video on a loop. You might check that out.

 

[Don Gwinn]

I don't know about Texas, but Illinois' legislature, for all intents and purposes, have declared Tasers to be firearms.

 

[TexasRifleman]

I don't know about Texas, but Illinois' legislature, for all intents and purposes, have declared Tasers to be firearms.

That's what I'm afraid may happen.

So far Texas still uses "explosion or burning substance" in the definition of firearm, not air or electrical energy.

I saw the demo video on Tasers' website and they are claiming it's perfectly legal.

I do believe in being able to escalate or de-escalate force if needed. I carry OC spray and then the firearm if it needs to go there, but let's be honest about OC. There's just as much chance of the stuff taking you down as anyone you might use it on.

Lots of the legal writers talk about this "force continuum" thing if you ever have to defend your actions in court. If you start with "less than lethal" and the attack continues to a point you need the firearm, you put yourself in a much better position.

I am beginning to think a Taser might make a very good intermediate weapon, and skip the OC but they are as healthy an investment as a firearm, and I just wondered what everyone thought of the legal future of the things.

 

[Billmanweh]

I can see it being a really useful tool for LEO, but I just can't see it catching on for civilians. If I were going to carry something that big and bulky on my person, I'd carry a gun.

 

[TexasRifleman]

I can see it being a really useful tool for LEO, but I just can't see it catching on for civilians. If I were going to carry something that big and bulky on my person, I'd carry a gun.

That's why I put this in legal instead of "strategies".

The argument over the size of the thing is a big deal, and you have a very valid point. OC spray in a large enough container to do any good is also as big and bulky as a firearm.

If you've read Ayoob or any of the self defense writers however, they all advocate SOME other means of force as part of this force continuum.

The argument goes that in a self defense encounter DAs can claim the encounter could have been handled without deadly force but since that's all you "brought to the table" it had no place to go but straight to there.

The fact that you carried some other less than lethal weapon can give you the opportunity to, even if the less than lethal weapon wasn't used, claim that you used the appropriate force response necessary and that you did have a choice and at the time deadly force was appropriate.

I've volunteered to help officers with OC training. I've taken 3 direct shots of the stuff over the years. Every time, the officer got it as much as I, the "assailant" did. Yeah it is effective stuff, but it is an indescriminate weapon, it attacks everyone.

Just something I was thinking about, and the legal aspects concern me more than the tactics.

 

[Billmanweh]

That's why I put this in legal instead of "strategies".

it must be too early in the morning for me to be posting

 

[TexasRifleman]

it must be too early in the morning for me to be posting

No no, that's not what I meant, I was just saying you have a very valid point about the size and carrying of a Taser but I'm more worried about the legal than that strategy for now.

 

[Billmanweh]

No no, that's not what I meant, I was just saying you have a very valid point about the size and carrying of a Taser but I'm more worried about the legal than that strategy for now.

I just meant I wasn't paying any attention to your original question. I'm kind of curious too if they'll end of being classified as a gun or more along the lines of pepper spray, etc.

 

[TexasRifleman]

I just meant I wasn't paying any attention to your original question. I'm kind of curious too if they'll end of being classified as a gun or more along the lines of pepper spray, etc.

Some states already include "air or electric" as the means of expelling the projectile. Texas still has the "explosion or burning" as the only definition, but I can't see how that will hold up very long.

I wouldn't be surprised to see our friends at ATF revise their definition as well.

According to reports, non LEO sales of the things are skyrocketing, so it will come up before long once people begin to use them.

 

[fletcher]

What concerns me in NC is this:

§ 14‑269. Carrying concealed weapons.
(a) It shall be unlawful for any person willfully and intentionally to carry concealed about his person any bowie knife, dirk, dagger, slung shot, loaded cane, metallic knuckles, razor, shurikin, stun gun, or other deadly weapon of like kind, except when the person is on the person's own premises.

If a Taser is considered a "stun gun", then it appears you can't legally carry one (concealed) in NC.

 

[Azrael256]

So far Texas still uses "explosion or burning substance" in the definition of firearm, not air or electrical energy.

So... Would open carry of a taser be legal? I'm not planning on trying it, as it looks too much like a pistol and I'd be in for some serious hassle (bare minimum), but could I get away with it in the end?

 

[Double Naught Spy]

Concealed handgun laws do not apply to Tasers in Texas, although other legislation could be passed to govern their carry and use.

 

[Jeff White]

Personally, I don't see much use for a taser in the hands of a private citizen. OC effects last a few minutes, giving you time to escape. With the taser, when you turn off the current, the pain stops. At that time you're faced with an angrier assailant. What do you do then? Give him another jolt? Keep shocking him till help arrives to maintain control?

Jeff