non-marring vise jaws

[General Geoff]

I'm going to be installing night sights on a Kimber 1911, using the brass drift punch method. I have a massive Starrett-Athol machinist vise to use, but was wondering if nylon jaw inserts will be too spongy or slippery to allow maximum percussion force for actually moving the sights under a hammer blow. Is copper soft enough to use as jaw inserts that won't mar the finish?

 

[stoky]

You can make some jaw covers out of sheet aluminum.
Pieces of old auto timing belt or motorcycle drive belts (aramid?) can also help. Make sure they don't have steel strand reinforcement.
Get a jar of this:
http://www.brownells.com/gunsmith-tools-supplies/general-gunsmith-tools/vises-accessories/vise-accessories/rosin-prod1123.aspx
Some sporting goods stores have rosin by the baseball bats or golf clubs.

 

[General Geoff]

Well, I already have the copper inserts that I made out of pipe, so since copper is approximately as soft as aluminum in comparison to steel, I figure that should be safe.

 

[Stony]

It might just be my opinion, but I've installed a bunch of night sights over the years, and I will not hammer them in. Most sight companies will warn you about doing it that way. I have no problem with drifting sights in and out like you are about to do....just not night sights. You can either break the radioactive cell, or dislodge it by pounding on the sights. I would say find yourself a proper sight tool and it just takes a few minutes to do it properly.
I use a couple sheets of plywood in my vise with some thick leather glued to them for normal usage. I put chalk on the leather for things that might be prone to movement in the jaws.

 

[stoky]

Good point about the tritium sights Stony.
That seems like doing it the hard way General, but it is very nice.

 

[judgedelta]

I bought two sets off of Amazon. One is nylon, with grooves in them to hold different shaped stuff; the other is aluminum with rubber glued to the face. Both have magnets to hold to the vise jaws. Both cost less than $10 each.

 

[Sunray]

Shop I worked in long ago used a regular 4" vise with wood and leather jaw protectors. Suspect nylon will be fine if tightened enough. Doesn't really have to be GM nuclear screw drive tight to tap a sight in a dovetail. Doesn't need a Thor's Hammer smack either.
Copper will mar the finish. Well it'll leave tiny bits of itself just like an empty case does on an M1 Rifle. Comes off easily enough though.

 

[General Geoff]

Yeah, I expect some copper to stick to the slide, which is fine as long as I can scrub it off.

 

[Drail]

I have used copper vise pads for many years. The copper will come off very easily with Sweet's 7.62 copper solvent (or any other copper bullet solvent) or believe it or not - standard issue cold bluing. These will also remove brass tracks from a punch.

 

[Old Shooter]

Sight tool sounds like a nice idea.

Padding the vices with whatever will probably protect the slide from marring but not protect the sights from shock and whatever from the hammer or whatever tool is used to move them out and replace them.

 

[General Geoff]

I appreciate all the feedback, guys!

If I were doing sight installations on a regular basis, I wouldn't hesitate to buy a decent sight mover tool. But I've heard horror stories of Kimber 1911 sights in particular, being so stubborn that sight tools break while trying to remove them. I'm not too concerned about chewing up the original sights, and once I manage to get the originals out, my options for easing the new night sights in are much greater.

I can lubricate the channel, and freeze the new sights while modestly heating the slide so they'll slide right in place with very little, if any resistance.

 

[FL-NC]

You really should send that gun away to have it done. This whole project sounds like an expensive accident waiting to happen.

 

[General Geoff]

I've successfully replaced friction-fit dovetail sights before, without a vise. I had to make due with a few clamps and some 2x4s to get the piece immobile enough to drift the sights out. Not fun.

With a solid vise, this should be a cakewalk.

 

[BBBBill]

Since you are not concerned with saving the original sights then make a cut transversely through the sights, stopping just short of the bottom. That will relieve the bind enough to remove the old sights with little risk of damage to the slide. Then fit the new sights for a snug fit (not so tight that it takes a sledge to move).

 

[General Geoff]

Yeah that's the backup plan (which I've had to implement once before), but hopefully it won't come to that.

 

[Raybj]

My experience is that Kimber sights are super tight and will not move by normal means. It is possible that they are locktited in place.
Kimber can move them with out marring anything up, I hope you can.

 

[Drail]

Most of the sight pusher tools that I have seen (and used) are junk. Loc tite will not hold a sight in place if struck by a hammer and punch - it's just not that strong. A little bit of heat will melt it if you can't move it. If you have a REALLY tight sight to move then a proper vise, hammer and punch will do a much better job - just not as precisely as a pusher. The vise needs to be heavy and solidly bolted to a heavy bench that is bolted to a solid wall. Any movement of the bench or vise will absorb energy from your hammer blow. Over time you will learn how hard to hit it. I always tried to sell my customers on fixed sights - and then install them fairly tight and then drill and tap for a set screw to hold the rear sight in the dovetail. I much prefer properly staked front sights. If done correctly they will never move or come off. Every single story you may have heard about staked sights coming loose is because whoever staked it on did not do it right.

 

[General Geoff]

If I hadn't psyched myself up over all the horror stories on the interwebs, I'd have thought this was a really easy & routine job!



Both front & rear sights came out with a short series of light taps from an 8oz ball peen hammer. Took a minute for each. I guess having an extremely solid vise setup really does make all the difference.


New sights went in just as easily.

 

[jmorris]

I have aluminum, copper and UHMW soft jaws but for "gun stuff" I generally use leather unless I am machining.

 

[General Geoff]

The copper jaws didn't even leave any marks to clean off. And I had the vise clamped down pretty darn tight.