Non-revolver Mechanical Repeating Pistols

[Jim K]

With the success of the lever action repeating rifle in the U.S. and other countries, it was natural that designers would try to apply the principle to handguns. All of the pistols N de F shows were operated that way, with the trigger guard acting as a lever. There were actually more, though some seem to have not gotten beyond the patent stage, either because the inventor had no money for further development and manufacture, or because the design turned out to be impossible or impractical to convert to a working product.

Among those other odd-balls was the Rudolf Österreich, which used a pivoting block like the Martini; the Krnka, which used a rotary magazine; the 1887 Passler & Seidl, which loaded from a clip that functioned like a Mannlicher clip but had to dropped out manually when empty; and the Reiger, which also used a rotary magazine.

Some used tubular magazines, so the resemblance to the American lever action rifles was even more pronounced, and one appears to have used a revolver type cylinder, though the advantage over a conventional revolver is not apparent.

Then some darned spoilsport went and decided to use the power of the cartridge itself to operate the gun and things got out of hand.

But those designs were a tribute of sorts to a wonderful world of inventive genius applied to a dead-end product, the repeating pistol.

Jim

 

[Nom de Forum]

Here is something I found on the Reiger.

http://jamesdjulia.com/item/lot-318...epeating-pistol-m1889-with-brass-frame-52437/

 

[Geldarr]

Not from the time-frame you're looking for, but the Semmerling .45acp is pretty much a modern version of what you're talking about.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Semmerling_LM4

American Derringer makes/made a reproduction too...

http://www.amderringer.com/lms.html

 

[Nom de Forum]

Not from the time-frame you're looking for, but the Semmerling .45acp is pretty much a modern version of what you're talking about.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Semmerling_LM4

American Derringer makes/made a reproduction too...

http://www.amderringer.com/lms.html

Not really. One of the interesting things about the late 19th century mechanical repeating pistols is most were intended to operated one handed with the firing hand. You don't do that with a Semmerling. While some of the inventors of mechanical repeaters went on to create semiautos; I imagine many of them had a head slapping moment when they realized all their time and efforts to create a mechanical repeater was spent traveling to a technological deadend.

 

[BCRider]

I'm not sure I'd go along with the one handed operation thing. The Volcanic replica in that video posted by John Thompson clearly NEEDS two hands since the cycling ring needs such a strong forward motion.

Of the others in your links in the first post the similar cycling rings would appear to require a strong forward motion to cycle the actions. And the human finger is woefully weak at extending although it's very strong at contracting. So I'm going to guess that most or all of those would have required the use of the second hand for cycling the action.

EDIT- OK, depending on how the Bittner works it's possible that if the ring doesn't have to perform a serious work load on the forward stroke that this might be one which functions all from one hand. It appears that the ring is intended to travel forward then engage the action cycle on the rearward pull and that the trigger finger would encounter the trigger and release the hammer/striker at the end of the travel. In effect a two element double action trigger. I guess it could be cocked then shot in single action but the arrangement of finger loop and trigger would make that a fussy proposition.

In effect it's not so much a mechanically cycled gun as it is an early attempt at a proper double action gun.

Double Edit- OK, after re-examining the links it looks like my first bit above is all wet. Looking more at the cycling loops and locations of the triggers clearly these guns are all intended to be used in a basic double action mode. And in fact the Counet only lacks a return spring so one could do away with the finger loop to be a regular double action style trigger. Which leaves the Volcanic with the strong forward ring motion for cycling as an odd one out in the original list of links.

So it would appear that only thing that truly separates them from a double action revolver is the method for handling the ammo.

 

[BigG]

I'm not sure I'd go along with the one handed operation thing. The Volcanic replica in that video posted by John Thompson clearly NEEDS two hands since the cycling ring needs such a strong forward motion.

Of the others in your links in the first post the similar cycling rings would appear to require a strong forward motion to cycle the actions. And the human finger is woefully weak at extending although it's very strong at contracting. So I'm going to guess that most or all of those would have required the use of the second hand for cycling the action.

EDIT- OK, depending on how the Bittner works it's possible that if the ring doesn't have to perform a serious work load on the forward stroke that this might be one which functions all from one hand. It appears that the ring is intended to travel forward then engage the action cycle on the rearward pull and that the trigger finger would encounter the trigger and release the hammer/striker at the end of the travel. In effect a two element double action trigger. I guess it could be cocked then shot in single action but the arrangement of finger loop and trigger would make that a fussy proposition.

In effect it's not so much a mechanically cycled gun as it is an early attempt at a proper double action gun.

Double Edit- OK, after re-examining the links it looks like my first bit above is all wet. Looking more at the cycling loops and locations of the triggers clearly these guns are all intended to be used in a basic double action mode. And in fact the Counet only lacks a return spring so one could do away with the finger loop to be a regular double action style trigger. Which leaves the Volcanic with the strong forward ring motion for cycling as an odd one out in the original list of links.

So it would appear that only thing that truly separates them from a double action revolver is the method for handling the ammo.

So you can see the double action revolver has it all over the lever operated pistols and why they disappeared off the market.

 

[Nom de Forum]

So you can see the double action revolver has it all over the lever operated pistols and why they disappeared off the market.

The DA revolver was not the reason why the mechanical repeaters disappeared off the market. In the era of the designs this thread is concerned with, revolvers were very slow to reload. Speed loader technology was almost completely unknown. They just were not commonly available. After the creation of a few early speedloader designs very few people had access to them and speedloaders would almost disappear from use and not reappear in common use for decades. Here is a helpful link:

http://www.guns.com/2013/03/30/revolver-speedloaders/

The early appeal of a mechanical repeating pistol was the new technology of ammunition clip (not detachable box magazine) that enabled rapid loading. These pistols would also be much thinner than the cylinder of a revolver of similar caliber. What caused these mechanical repeaters to disappear was the creation of reliable semiautomatic pistols in the 1890s.

The Volcanic pistol is an anachronism in this thread. That pistol is decades older than the pistols that are the subject of this thread. The Volcanic is really more of a lever action rifle without a buttstock that requires two hands to operate in comparison to the mechanical repeaters of the last decades of the 19th century.