El Tejon
Member
One would think that a writer of stories involving guns would at least know something about guns? Apparently not.
Well, like most gun hacks, he does write fiction.
Well, like most gun hacks, he does write fiction.
"Out with Bang" amazingly fair article on Winchester from Washington Post
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Father Knows Best
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redranger1 said:
That's exactly my point. His article suggests that Winchester lever guns will no longer be made. That's not true. Only one model of Winchester lever gun -- the 94 -- was made by USRAC. The half dozen other models (1860, 1866, 1873, 1886, 1892, 1895, etc.) were never made by USRAC. They will all continue to be made by the companies that make them. Moreover, the 94 will still be made -- just by someone other than USRAC.
This isn't the "end of an era", as he suggests in his overly melodramatic and misleading article. It's just one company that made a few models under license since 1981 ceasing production of those models. The license will be transferred to someone else, who will resume production.
bobhaverford
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AMEN!
AMEN. Our culture, our American Western Civilized culture, is fast falling to a hyper-rationalistic multicultural PC intolerant monolithic behemoth that is modern leftism. Ronald Reagan, the greatest 20th century president, said we were in jeporady of loosing our cultural memory. He was right. I wonder if we have the cajones to defend ourselves against the Islamic demographic onslaught. God Bless America. God Bless Winchester.
BTW, Winchester WILL live. Are they simply closing the doors or trying to sell the company?
LAK said:
AMEN. Our culture, our American Western Civilized culture, is fast falling to a hyper-rationalistic multicultural PC intolerant monolithic behemoth that is modern leftism. Ronald Reagan, the greatest 20th century president, said we were in jeporady of loosing our cultural memory. He was right. I wonder if we have the cajones to defend ourselves against the Islamic demographic onslaught. God Bless America. God Bless Winchester.
BTW, Winchester WILL live. Are they simply closing the doors or trying to sell the company?
alan
Member
on the closing of Winchester's New Haven plant
News stories have offered that only "high end" items such as made in Belgium, Japan and another country that has slipped my memory will continue. Plant's closing attributed to a fall off in sales.
Interestingly, Winchester's life span has been listed at 144 years, which takes it back to 1861. It survived The Civil War, and other problems including The Great Depression.
Funny isn't it though, how in what we are told is a time of a great economy, a major U.S. manufacturing facility is scheduled to soon close due to "lack of business". Has Winchester produced and sold so many arms that their "ordinary products" have become a drug on the market? I have no way of telling, but it does sem to be a little curious.
Could it be that Winchester's quality, expressed in/by the long life of it's products has spelled it's downfall. I cannot say, though with the increase in the population, I would think that there would be an increased number of potential customers. Of course, perhaps people are no longer interested in hunting, target shooting and such activities, or might it be that the loss of locales is becoming an ever greater factor?
As above mentioned, I have no answers. Perhaps others might.
News stories have offered that only "high end" items such as made in Belgium, Japan and another country that has slipped my memory will continue. Plant's closing attributed to a fall off in sales.
Interestingly, Winchester's life span has been listed at 144 years, which takes it back to 1861. It survived The Civil War, and other problems including The Great Depression.
Funny isn't it though, how in what we are told is a time of a great economy, a major U.S. manufacturing facility is scheduled to soon close due to "lack of business". Has Winchester produced and sold so many arms that their "ordinary products" have become a drug on the market? I have no way of telling, but it does sem to be a little curious.
Could it be that Winchester's quality, expressed in/by the long life of it's products has spelled it's downfall. I cannot say, though with the increase in the population, I would think that there would be an increased number of potential customers. Of course, perhaps people are no longer interested in hunting, target shooting and such activities, or might it be that the loss of locales is becoming an ever greater factor?
As above mentioned, I have no answers. Perhaps others might.
Father Knows Best
Member
MBane666 said:
Not necessarily. Companies like USFA have shown that you can be profitable making a premium firearm product here in the U.S. Olin owns the Winchester brand name, and will do everything it can to maximize its value. I'm sure keeping some production in the U.S. is in Olin's interest.
All the hullaballoo over U.S. Repeating Arms is just ridiculous, though. The real Winchester died in the 1930s with its acquisition by Olin. USRAC is just one of many recent licensees, and has only been making firearms with the Winchester brand name since 1981. The end of USRAC is no great loss, especially if the end result is that someone else starts producing truly high quality, world class firearms under the Winchester brand. THAT would honor Oliver Winchester's legacy and would restore the Winchester name to the prominence that it once rightfully held.
hobbeeman
Member
alan said:
Father Knows Best said:
Whether the "original" Winchester died in the 1930s or 2006 isn't the point. Winchester made some great weapons long after the 1930s, regardless of who comprised the ownership of the company. I'm not going to get into a debate over the timeline of Winchester's quality decline, but I think most would agree that Winchester's current offerings aren't anything like the weapons they produced in the first half of the 20th century.
The main point is that the factory itself is closing. It is one thing for ownership to change, but another thing entirely when we are talking about closing the factory completely with no guarantee that the Winchester name will continue producing guns in this country.
joab
Member
The part I find sad is the closing of the 140 year old plant. There is alot of history that is going to go out with the monday morning trash
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carebear
Member
That's the point, the thing is the people is the place.
The factory in New Haven closing means the end of an era. Who cares if the same model is built somewhere else, even identical in every degree. Its home is gone, a piece of history is over.
El T,
You should admit there's a real difference between the errors gun nuts notice about toggle links or the particulars of licensees and grievous errors like revolvers ejecting spent casings or pump action double barrels.
Cut Hunter a little slack. He's a movie reviewer and reasonably good (and reasonably gun accurate) novelist whos article was aimed at Post readers, most of whom who would do well to pick a rifle out of a lineup of gardening tools.
The factory in New Haven closing means the end of an era. Who cares if the same model is built somewhere else, even identical in every degree. Its home is gone, a piece of history is over.
El T,
You should admit there's a real difference between the errors gun nuts notice about toggle links or the particulars of licensees and grievous errors like revolvers ejecting spent casings or pump action double barrels.
Cut Hunter a little slack. He's a movie reviewer and reasonably good (and reasonably gun accurate) novelist whos article was aimed at Post readers, most of whom who would do well to pick a rifle out of a lineup of gardening tools.
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JohnBT
Member
"One would think that a writer of stories involving guns would at least know something about guns?"
He does know something about guns. One would think a writer of highly entertaining pro-gun novels who gets a big pro-gun piece in the Washington Post wouldn't catch so much flack over minor errors. Why not save the criticism for the gun grabbers?
John
He does know something about guns. One would think a writer of highly entertaining pro-gun novels who gets a big pro-gun piece in the Washington Post wouldn't catch so much flack over minor errors. Why not save the criticism for the gun grabbers?
John
carebear said:
Exactly. You summed up what I was trying to say in one sentence. I don't want a Japanese, Belgian, or Taiwanese Winchester.
I want a Winchester made in New Haven, with top notch wood to metal fit, deep glossy blueing, and hand checkering. The mistake Winchester made was cheapening their rifles due to increased competition in the marketplace. Instead, they should have created a new brand name with entry level characteristics and a lower price to match. The Winchester name should have been kept as a premium brand with all the things that make us love the early Winchesters.
Mannlicher
Member
I'd say that article is pretty much a piece of anti gun crap. Yes, Winchester is going the way of other companies that were bought, mis managed, marginalized, and closed.
Face it, there was never a time when all Americans were 'gun nuts'. Almost without exception, the gun as a family totem, if you will, was a Southern or Western phenom. Yankees never really had to rely on guns, like we did down South or out West. Yes, the whole 'gun thing' is being diminshed, but the culture is still strong in many places.
Face it, there was never a time when all Americans were 'gun nuts'. Almost without exception, the gun as a family totem, if you will, was a Southern or Western phenom. Yankees never really had to rely on guns, like we did down South or out West. Yes, the whole 'gun thing' is being diminshed, but the culture is still strong in many places.
I agree; and I would sure like to rummage through what will literally go into the trash.joab said:
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http://ussliberty.org
http://ssunitedstates.org
carebear
Member
Mannlicher said:
Where exactly do you get "anti-gun" from that article?
Hunter is an ardent pro-2nd writer and journalist.
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