NooB Load confusion

[Srchief77]

I have gathered all the recommended loading equipment and I am getting ready to load my first 45 ACP rounds. However in the course of my reading various books and looking at the Powder and Bullet Co. sites I have gotten confused by the difference in the recommended loads. For example:
The load instruction that came with my Lee 45 ACP pistol dies shows using Bullseye powder for a 230 grain Jacketed bullet a min of 5.0 grains and a max of 5.0 grains.

The same or probably similar bullet (they say TMJ RN) from the Alliant website for Bullseye gives a charge of 5.7 grains (however the small print does say to start 10% less or 5.3 grains).

The Lyman manual says for the same bullet (they say TMJ RN) to start with 3.8 grains with a max of 5.3 which is Alliant’s start.

I did speak to a tech at Lee and was told that they got the data from the powder company.

My question really is how do I know what is right if the recipes are all different for the same rounds. My gut says start at 3.8 and don’t exceed 5.7 as I try to find an optimum load but 3.8 seems light.

I will be using the ammo in a SA 1911A1 Government model and a 1911 Citadel Officer’s model, here I can assume that one recipe will not fit all.

Your assistance or advice would be appreciated. I apologize in advance if this has been covered in another thread.

 

[ranger335v]

Simple explainaton; they used different guns to develop their max loads. Yours is also different from any of theirs.

Follow your gut.

 

[mongoose33]

You need to work up your loads. That means starting low, and working up looking for pressure signs.

And FWIW, 10 percent less of 5.7gr is about 5.1, not 5.3.


Different bullets have different characteristics; as SrChief noted, different guns will produce different results.

Comparing "generic" bullets from different load sources is chancy; that's why you start low and work up.

 

[Mike 27]

I would say that as long as you use a reputable reference, you should be good. I try to look at a minimum of 2 references if I can. I have the Lyman pistol book and they are low on alot of the loads not to say they are not safe but I typically go with other books and the powder recomendations. You can get in trouble with to low of a charge as well, as over max. The reputable books have tested the loads in the sighted guns but unless you have that exact gun it will be different burns on the powder and charecteristics. That is why you run the start load and work up. But as for the Lyman pistol book I use it but only as a secondary reference due to the low starting loads. I am probably off base here but I use Hornady and the propelent sites more so for my loads. There are other great books as well, and I am not trying to slam Lyman I just don't like the data on some of the loads for the .45 and a few other calibers.

 

[Maj Dad]

You Are In Charge

I share your frustration. Over the years, there were fewer references early on, and loads were sort of standardized. As more of the companies got into the load fray, things started to gray out. As noted, different guns/primers/cases/circumstances led to different conclusions, and we are left to sort it out. The best advice is to look at the different recommendations, consider the components and test bed (real gun or pressure barrel etc), and come up with a safe starting load for your weapon. You will never go wrong with the lowest start load of all the recommendations (unless way low, and that can be problematic, especially with 296 & H110); you get into that gray area with the maximum, and even mid-range loads. I understand that Unique/Bullseye/maybe others have changed their characteristics of late, necessitating a re-do of the load data. I have old powder (by 5-6 years) and have not changed anything, and have had no problems. I look at the old manuals, and think, why in the heck didn't my guns blow up??? The very best advice is to start low, and work up systematically, in your guns with your components. Otherwise, it's a crap shoot, and crapping out in this hobby can be crappy, indeed...

 

[LubeckTech]

One thing that can make a difference is the Over All Length of the loaded round. It effects the way the powder burns therefore the pressure created and the velocity of the bullet. If you can afford one or borrow one a chronograph is a great tool for the reloader. New ones can be had for around $100.00 and used ones for less.

 

[qajaq59]

Srchief77, welcome to the hobby.

Another big advantage to starting low and working up, besides being safer, is that you will find the most accurate load on the way up. And it may not be anywhere near the max.

 

[243winxb]

My gut says start at 3.8 and don’t exceed 5.7 as I try to find an optimum load but 3.8 seems light.

3.8gr Alliant Bullseye is to light for a 230 gr Jacketed bullet. IMO. Start around 4.6grs and work up to a your maximum.

 

[jfh]

Remember that there are more clues to why the manuals have these recipe variances. The issues range from the individual sample parameters--i.e., what this particular gun / pressure barrel did with this batch of powder / primers--on forward to the variable most likely to impact the pressure: LOA of the cartridge assembly.

IMO, to properly evaluate a recipe's charge range, you simply have to know how deeply the bullet is seated in the case. That varies with bullet design and type; it's more-or-less standardized, but is a real variable for rounds typically shot in autoloaders--IOW, where LOA is determined by feed reliability and charge weight has an impact on function.

For the extreme example the OP mentions, look carefully at the bullet type, seating depth, test barrel / firearm, and date of the test--newer testing is more standardized and probably more accurate (as well as lawyered by business decisions).

Jim H.

 

[Marlin 45 carbine]

welcome to the Forum - one thing to consider IMO if you're shooting for groups is that the max charge of powder (hottest load) is rarely the best grouping load. it's necessary to have enough recoil to function well (work the slide) then work up checking the groups and off a rest may be the best way to accomplish this. when you've got the load down pat move to standing, kneeling and so on positions.

 

[918v]

I consider 5gr of Bullseye a full-power (800+ FPS) load in the 45 ACP with a 230gr FMJ bullet loaded to 1.270" OAL. In my guns, it is also the most accurate. If I were you, I'd work up from about 4.5 grains. I know alliant calls for 5.7 grains as max, but that is max in their test barrel. Many 1911's today sport match chambers and will max out sooner than that.

 

[bullseye308]

Most likely you will find your happy place between 4.7 and 5.2 grains. Lee doesn't do their own testing, they get their numbers from other companies and compile it.

Here is what one person told me years ago when starting a new load:
What you want to do is reference 5 sources. Average the highs and lows and throw out the high and low number, then start 15-20% under the middle. That should be a good safe starting point.

 

[Srchief77]

Thanks everyone for the replies. I am now of the opinion that reloading will be like being a modern day alchemist. Instead of turning lead into gold, the gold will be the accuracy achieved sending the lead down range using the best recipe. Anyways thanks again for the replies, I found them very helpful.

Oh 10% less of 5.7 is 5.13 not 5.3 as I originally posted.