Noobie 45 Colt reloading Question

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thewizard65

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I just started into Loading/Re Loading my own ammo for my Pieta 1858 Remington Model New Army, with a Cartridge Conversion Cylinder. My question is: I have made 100 rnds so far, they are 255 grain bullet over 32 grains of FFF BP, Should I back that powder to 30 grains. I tested some of my hand loads already, they work Ok but with a kick. My Fear is blowing up my pistol.
 
Howdy

First off, you are not going to blow up your pistol with a Black Powder load. Modern conversion cylinders are made of top grade steel and they can take the pressure developed by a full house Black Powder load. And don't worry that your barrel probably says For Black Powder Only, or something similar. The cylinder is the main pressure vessel of a revolver, not the barrel.

But I discovered a long time ago that I did not care for full house 45 Colt Black Powder loads in my EuroArms Remmie equipped with an R&D Conversion Cylinder for 45 Colt. The grip shape of a Remington 1858 is different than a Colt, and I do not care for the amount of recoil my full house Black Powder 45 Colt loads generate in a Remmie.

For what it's worth, my standard 45 Colt Black Powder load for my Colts is a 250 grain Big Lube bullet over 2.2CC (about 33 grains) of FFg Schuetzen in a standard 45 Colt case.

But for my Remmie I prefer a 45 Schofield case and a 200 grain Big Lube bullet. The Schofield case has less powder capacity than the 45 Colt case, and reducing bullet weight from 250 grains to 200 grains cuts down considerably on recoil. I put 1.9CC (about 28.5 grains) into a Schofield case (I buy them from Starline) and seat a 200 grain Big Lube J/P 45-200 bullet on top.

This photo shows the cartridges I load with Black Powder. Left to right they are 44 Russian, 45 Schofield, 38-40, 44-40, 45 Colt, and 45-70. You can see how much less powder capacity the Schofield round has than the 45 Colt round.

poQkmpp3j.jpg




This is what goes into my standard 45 Colt loads.

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This is what goes into my 45 Schofield loads.

pn3YsGptj.jpg




Schofield rounds have a larger diameter rim than 45 Colt, usually .512 for the Colt round and .520 for the Schofield round. At first that was a problem with my Schofield rounds, but I had a gunsmith open up the counterbores for the rims on my cylinder so they will accept both rounds. I'm pretty sure that all the conversion cylinders can chamber 45 Schofield rounds now.

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A few comments: Black Powder weighs different amounts, depending on what brand it is. It is not like Smokeless, where the density and weight of the powder does not change from lot to lot. That is why I usually specify my BP loads by volume, not by weight. I use the weight as a reference only. Ignore those guys who tell you not to weigh your Black Powder charges, they are full of hooey, there is nothing wrong with weighing BP charges. But because BP actually weighs a different amount from brand to brand, I made up this chart a long time ago showing the weights of my favorite BP charges. I use Cubic Centimeters as my standard volume reference because that is the way Lee powder dippers are set up. This chart is pretty old, Elephant brand powder has not been around for a long time now.

pml7GTgRj.jpg




I changed over to FFg for all my BP cartridges a long time ago. Generally speaking, all other things being equal you will get between 60fps - 100fps more velocity with FFFg vs FFg. Less velocity means a tad less pressure. I simply got tired of keeping two different granulations around, and FFg has always worked fine for me in all my cartridges, including 12 gauge shotgun.



Compression: You must compress your powder. My rule of thumb is to compress the powder by 1/16" - 1/8" when the bullet is seated. So if you reduce your powder charge you must make sure you are still compressing the powder a bit. At the very least, make sure the base of the bullet meets the top of the powder charge. Don't leave any airspace in there.

Fillers: you can use fillers to take up some of the extra space in your rounds if you want. Most of the CAS guys use Grits. I experimented with corn meal years ago. I stopped messing with fillers a long time ago, too much extra work.

Bullet lube: What kind of bullet lube are you using on your bullets? Generally speaking, Black Powder needs a soft, gooey bullet lube, such as SPG. Using standard bullets with standard hard bullet lube can result in difficult to remove fouling in your barrel.
 
You're supposed to fill the cartridge when using BP.
Are you compressing the powder?
As said 2 grains isn't much different.
Also using 2F would reduce the energy a bit at the same volume.
I wouldn't worry about blowing up the pistol with Real BP loads
I am using cream of wheat as a filler.
 
A while back, I wanted to have some reduced power loads to shoot at matches. So I backed the powder charge off to 20gr FFg and reduced the bullet weight to 200gr. Instead of breakfast food, I use foam caulk backer rod. It comes in a long roll and you just cut it to size. Works perfect and I don't have to fool around with messy cereal. And the felt recoil is noticeably less.

IMG_1514.jpg IMG_1515.jpg IMG_1516.jpg IMG_1517.jpg
 
Shotgun Dave:

I've heard of doing that for years, but I have never seen any photos of it.

What do you do?

Shave off the caulk backer rod flush with the case mouth, then seat a bullet, thereby compressing the backer?

Nice photos by the way.

Driftwood Johnson, thank you Sir. And yes, you are absolutely correct. Just cut the backer rod off flush with the case and seat your bullet. It puts a nice compression on the powder.

I also use SPG for lube in my black powder loads. And I haven't had any adverse reactions when using the backer rod.
 
This is my recent 45 colt reloading. I did think 777 FFFG was too hot for use in conversion cyls without wadding or some other way to reduce the load I eventually went with 5 grains of 777 and then filled the case with my own BP which is less powerful then what you can buy and got me to about 800 FPS.

 
I've crammed the case as full as I could with a 250 gr projo. And used a brass colt converted 1860 in my younger years. It never gave up or exploded and I learned why you don't do that. Nothing really dangerous, it stretches and won't let the hammer strike the cap reliably.

You'll be fine.
But probably it would be more enjoyable to load lighter with less recoil.
 
- No amount of 3Fg (that you could fit in the chamber) is going to hurt your revolver.
- If you want reduce the load, go ahead. But fill the excess space w/ some corn meal so that things are still slightly compressed
No big deal. BP target-pistol shooters do it as a matter of course. In fact half or more of the case may be cornmeal.
 
A while back, I wanted to have some reduced power loads to shoot at matches. So I backed the powder charge off to 20gr FFg and reduced the bullet weight to 200gr. Instead of breakfast food, I use foam caulk backer rod. It comes in a long roll and you just cut it to size. Works perfect and I don't have to fool around with messy cereal. And the felt recoil is noticeably less.

I just took the .44 felt Wonder Wads, and put them into my .45 Colt BP cartridges or my .45 Schofields...to take up the gap. They are sold for use in black powder cartridges. 20 Grains of 3Fg, some wads and a 230 grain lead round nose .451 bullet and no worries. You have to eyeball them, but (iirc) it's 3 wads in a .45 Colt cartridge and two in the Schofields.

WONDER WADS 44 2.jpg

LD
 
I just took the .44 felt Wonder Wads, and put them into my .45 Colt BP cartridges or my .45 Schofields...to take up the gap. They are sold for use in black powder cartridges. 20 Grains of 3Fg, some wads and a 230 grain lead round nose .451 bullet and no worries. You have to eyeball them, but (iirc) it's 3 wads in a .45 Colt cartridge and two in the Schofields.

View attachment 947406

LD
Dave, I would not load LUBED Wonder Wads over black unless you planned on shooting them right away. The lube can leach into the powder and weaken the load as with any contamination. I would recommend unlubed wads for that. Just my 2 cents.
 
I just took the .44 felt Wonder Wads, and put them into my .45 Colt BP cartridges or my .45 Schofields...to take up the gap. They are sold for use in black powder cartridges. 20 Grains of 3Fg, some wads and a 230 grain lead round nose .451 bullet and no worries. You have to eyeball them, but (iirc) it's 3 wads in a .45 Colt cartridge and two in the Schofields.

View attachment 947406

LD

That's good info to know LD. Thank you.I've used them as lube in black powder cartridges before, but wasn't sure what effect they'd have stacking more than one.

One thing that I had thought of was, they aren't consumed upon firing. They exit the barrel with the bullet. I have heard (it's not happened to me) that they can stick to the back of the bullet or ball, and degrade accuracy.
 
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32 grs Fffg isn't going to do any harm but it will be perky. As @Driftwood Johnson notes above, using the Lee Dippers is all you really need to do with 45LC BP loads. 1.9 cc for heavier loads with 250 grs bullets and the 1.6 cc dipper for lighter loads - my favorite being with DJ's own design: the 200 grs J/P Big Lube Bullet. I don't mind messy breakfast cereal filler, but @ShotgunDave seems to have come up with something pretty clever with that foam rod!
 
32 grs Fffg isn't going to do any harm but it will be perky. As @Driftwood Johnson notes above, using the Lee Dippers is all you really need to do with 45LC BP loads. 1.9 cc for heavier loads with 250 grs bullets and the 1.6 cc dipper for lighter loads - my favorite being with DJ's own design: the 200 grs J/P Big Lube Bullet. I don't mind messy breakfast cereal filler, but @ShotgunDave seems to have come up with something pretty clever with that foam rod!

Thanks for the kudos DocRock! But I can't take credit for inventing the method. I'm just copying someone smarter than I!

By the way, I made this short video on how fast the foam backer rod burns. Just in case anyone is concerned about it blocking the barrel or anything else. You'll see, it burns really fast and is completely consumed.

 
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I'm definitely not a tree huger or carbon counter, but I'd rather use a biodegradable filler like the cereal, than add extra unnecessary pollution by either burning or discarding the foam backer rods when there is a simple safe alternative like the cereal. Just my $0.02
 
Hey Guys,

I've been using Biodegradable Packaging Peanuts in the 45 Colt, but I am using Black MZ.
The peanuts are free and show up on the doorstep from time to time.
Easiest way to tell if they're biodegradable, place one in your hand and run water over it.
If it dissolves, it's biodegradable. Some can be seen occasionally burning as going down range.

AntiqueSledMan.
 
I have heard (it's not happened to me) that they can stick to the back of the bullet or ball, and degrade accuracy.

The air turbulence at the rear of a flat based, lead handgun bullet, coupled with the twisting of that bullet in flight means those wads will never stick the base of that bullet. Heck even Brenneke brand shotguns slugs, which don't spin, use the wad as a sort of stabilizer like the tail of a kite, and they have to be deliberately attached to stay put. ;)

LD
 
Dave, I would not load LUBED Wonder Wads over black unless you planned on shooting them right away.

Huh...,

So I wonder then, why the manufacturer puts on the label of the lubed wads, that they can be used in black powder cartridges? I know folks that don't make them think they can have problems in cartridges, but why would the manufacturer set themselves up for cartridge degradation or failure?



LD
 
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