Not a 1911 guru. Help me out with this.

[K-Rod]

I don't have or ever had a 1911. A guy at work heard me talking about firearms & asked if I could help him idenify this pistol. I told him it looks like a standard 1911 but I'd post a thread here to see if I could get more info on it.

Its says on the slide ...pat.apr.20.1897.sept.9,1902. dec.10,.1905.feb.14,1911.aug.19,1913..colts pt.f.a.mfg.co.HARTFORD,CT.U.S.A.......on the othe side above trigger it says....essex.arms.corp.island.pond,..VT.

Thanks guys
http://m1229.photobucket.com/albumv...rI+gk36ROXlNwrWLqrIymx8T4IZmlE+6Rgxf5l0E/3yw=

 

[sarduy]

that's a very old true 1911

 

[gbw]

It's an old Colt slide (the top part) on a cast aftermarket frame - the Essex part.

Depending on who built it, and/or the condition of the parts used, it may be a very fine pistol or a hand grenade in disguise. Or anything in between. I'd get it checked by an expert.

 

[K-Rod]

-Deleted-

 

[K-Rod]

So it was a custom job or someone had a Colt slide & put it on an aftermarket frame making it not worth anything?

 

[GURU1911]

In terms of $$$$ it is not of any great value, but if it is safe to shoot, works reliably, & it satisfies whatever you need it to do, then shoot, maintain properly, & enjoy for the remainder of your life and then pass it along before you pass away.

 

[rellascout]

So it was a custom job or someone had a Colt slide & put it on an aftermarket frame making it not worth anything?

It is not a custom job per se. There were a ton of leftover intact slides after WWI IIRC. Companies like Essex made commercial frames which these Colt slides could be fitted onto. It is not that it is worthless. It is nothing more than a mix master shooter IMHO. Its worth a few hundred $s.

 

[Old Fuff]

From about the middle 1950's to middle/late 60's the surplus market was flooded with high-quality USGI 1911 parts of all kinds, except for frames, that were in brand new condition and sold for peanuts.

So if one bought an aftermarket frame, such as one made by Essex, they could put together a very good pistol for very little money. Keep in mind there were no MIM or cast parts among the surplus items - which represented better quality then is used in many current 1911 copies made today.

So if I had this piece of junk I would take it out and shoot it, using regular 230 grain ball ammunition, and if it fed and functioned O.K. I would count my blessings. There may be some better pistols, but I can think of a whole lot that aren't.

 

[rellascout]

IIRC The Essex frames are cheap castings. They are not of high quality even then. Again this does not make it a bad pistol it is what it is a mix master which depending on it condition my be OK for firing.

The other big issue with these older slides is that lots of them are very soft in comparison to todays 1911 slides. Again IIRC they were only spot heat treated at points of stress which leaves them weaker and prone to cracking.

If I were to shot this gun I would only shoot lower powered ball ammo. With older guns like this you never know if the round you are about to shoot is the one which will break the bank so to speak.

 

[K-Rod]

Thanks guys. I'll let him know to have it checked. He said he's put 150-200 rds through it without any problems but from the sounds of it one trigger pull may be it's last.

 

[rellascout]

Thanks guys. I'll let him know to have it checked. He said he's put 150-200 rds through it without any problems but from the sounds of it one trigger pull may be it's last.

Not necessarily but he should be aware of possible issues.

 

[Jim Watson]

No need to be so negative. True, it is a parts gun with low resale value, but if it shoots, it is worth whatever a working gun matters to him.
I read a lot more about broken military parts on the internet than I see on the range.

 

[K-Rod]

I'm sorry. I wasn't trying to be negitive, but i wouldn't want him to get injured shooting it either. Being what it is, I think the best thing to tell him is to spend a couple bucks to have it checked out & if it's a sound firearm, have fun with it & as one other member said, pass it down.

 

[mmitch]

Here's one of those "cheap" frame Colt over Essex that all the experienced pros say will fail or intimate will injure a shooter:



Now, that slide is an actual 1911 (no A1). It was fitted to the Essex frame, who knows how long ago. I bought it used, fired several hundred rounds, then asked a 'smith to set it up as my "IPSC" gun, lotsa go fast goodies in the slide, but zero changes
(excepting the trigger) to the Essex portion of the weapon.
Then, conservatively, around 8,000 rounds of major power loads. It remains very solid and among my most accurate shooters.
Who, here, among those who decry this type of frame as dangerous or weak, has broken one of these?
I'd be interested in the situation where one of you has witnessed this occurence.

I believe Old Fuff has the correct mindset on these guns. There will always be mechanisms that fail, even from the best manufacturers, but to go along with the belief that they are all "cheap castings" is painting with a VERY broad brush. They may be relatively cheap compared to Colt, STI, Kimber, Les Baer, Wilson, or (name your fav). But cheap (relatively inexpensive), perhaps can mean cost effective as opposed to shoddy.

Mike