Not allowed to ship firearms in pelican style hard cases?

[Narwhal]

Hi,

I recently shipped a gun via fedex to a gunsmith and he refused the package because it was in a pelican case instead of a cardboard box.

Apparantly shipping it in a pelican style plastic hard case makes the contents "obviously a gun" and is therefore somehow against the law?

So instead we have to ship our weapons inside of fragile and easily damaged cardboard boxes? This makes no sense to me. Can anyone set me straight as to whether or not it's actually against the law the ship a gun in a pelican case or if it's OK? Was the gunsmith right for refusing the package?

 

[One-Time]

I think the gunsmith is an idiot and Id be real leary of him working on my firearm if he thinks cardboard is OK but a Pelican isnt

 

[9mmepiphany]

never tried it, wouldn't put labels and such on a case like that anyway.

usually just pop the pelican case into a cardboard box and stuff any excess space with newspaper

i've never heard of it being "against the law", but then was that what he said?

was he right? well...he was if you want him to work on your gun, he has the right to refuse anything he wants

 

[Narwhal]

I don't want him to work on my gun anymore; in my opinion its pretty clear that he doesn't want the business if he'll refuse the package for something petty like this. I will find someone else to do the work.

And yes, that's what he said. He said it was against the law for him to accept the pelican case unless it had padlocks on it. I would've gladly shipped him some padlocks for the return trip if he wanted, but I was not given that option since the package was refused.

 

[grumpycoconut]

He probably doesn't want to be responsible for your case. If he loses a cardboard box, no biggie. He pulls another one off the self and you're none the wiser. If he loses your expensive and much loved Pelican case you'll get all bent out of shape and demand that he buy you a new one and then you'll bad mouth him to all your buddies and he'll lose even more money on the gig. It's a whole lot easier to make up a law about not accepting Pelican cases than it is to tell you that your case is more grief for him than your custom is worth.

For what it's worth I've handed several guns directly to several gun smiths and not a one of them wanted my to leave the cases with them.

 

[wishin]

With no more to go on than the facts you provide, and what he said and did, sounds to me like he doesn't need the business. Must be nice!

 

[gearhead]

It is against Postal rules and overnight service policy to ship firearms that are identified as such but that's really pushing the issue to think that a generic plastic case would identify something as a firearm.

 

[dogtown tom]

I'm an FFL and receive about three rifles or shotguns per month in a bare, naked Dosko or Plano style plastic case. While it offers great protection, it does scream GUN INSIDE!!! to my "expert" eyes. What does the average citizen see it as? I don't know, but I expect a thief to pick the one that looks like it's protecting the most expensive item. Plastic case vs cardboard box of the same size? I think 99 of 100 thieves would pick the plastic box, not the cardboard box.

Consider this:
1. Using cardboard to wrap around the plastic gun case adds less than one pound to the shipment. Don't have one of the exact size? Make one from other used cardboard boxes and packing tape.

2. Plastic cases are for protection of contents from damage- not from theft. Although you may use a lock on the case- the receiving FFL still needs the key. Tossing the key inside the box before you lock it doesn't make you look any smarter. Use cable ties if the box has holes for a padlock. At the very least tape the plastic case before putting it in the cardboard box. The cheaper boxes pop their snap locks waaaaay to easily.

3. Remember Federal law prohibits shipping a firearm with anything that identifies the package as containing a firearm. (Basically, you don't write "Hope you enjoy this shotgun as much as I did!" on the outside of the box) But it doesn't take a genius to see what a bad idea it is to reuse an old Remington box. I get one of those once a month.

 

[SharpsDressedMan]

Just curious, but how was the Pelican case locked, if you did not lock it with a padlock on the first trip to him? From what I have seen of Pelican cases, they have corresponding holes in lid and bottom for the expressed use of padlocks. Is there another way to secure them, or could anyone have popped it open during its travel to the gunsmith?

 

[toivo]

I'm an FFL and receive about three rifles or shotguns per month in a bare, naked Dosko or Plano style plastic case. While it offers great protection, it does scream GUN INSIDE!!! to my "expert" eyes.

Dosko or Plano I can see, but Pelican cases are used for all kinds of other stuff: cameras, electronics, EMS gear, etc. Did it have a gun manufacturer's logo on it?

Using cardboard to wrap around the plastic gun case adds less than one pound to the shipment. Don't have one of the exact size? Make one from other used cardboard boxes and packing tape.

+1 on that. I've done it shipping guitars too. Nothing says "steal me" like a guitar case with the right logo embossed on it.

 

[EddieNFL]

He probably doesn't want to be responsible for your case.

I would find a responsible smith.

 

[Double Naught Spy]

I recently shipped a gun via fedex to a gunsmith and he refused the package because it was in a pelican case instead of a cardboard box.

Apparantly shipping it in a pelican style plastic hard case makes the contents "obviously a gun" and is therefore somehow against the law?

I sent my S&W M&P 15-22 in for service to S&W. I didn't have the original box and so I broke down the gun into parts and sent it in a smaller box. S&W returned the gun in a proper S&W M&P 15-22 box that was inside of another box that had the contents listed on it.

It isn't illegal for the contents of the box to be known.

 

[jrhines]

Think of it this way...

your a smith who receives an unsecured plastic case that your customer swears had his original Patterson in it when he shipped it, in pristine shape. You can't tell if the box has been opened or not, so you take it in, pop it open, and find a POS .25 special grinning up at you. Now, who assumes the liability, you, the shipper, the customer? If the whole shebang were wrapped up and sealed it would be a mite easier to ascertain if it had been fooled with. Wire ties are fine, but I use orange or green or purple 'cause they are harder to find. But I think puttin' it all in a cardboard box is the all around best bet.
But that's just me, YMMV

 

[Narwhal]

I did use zip ties to secure the case closed in addition to its four latches. I guess that still wasn't good enough. In the above scenario its pretty clear that the shipper would be responsible. That's why I insured the thing for $1,000.

 

[Frank Ettin]

Can't imagine what the gunsmith was thinking to refuse delivery, but I also see no need to ship a gun in a hard case.

I've shipped any number of guns to gunsmiths in appropriately sized shipping boxes. I wrap the gun in a shop towel then wrap it well in bubble wrap. Then I pack the box with crumpled newspapers. The guns are usually returned wrapped in a similar fashion. I've never had any trouble, nor has any gun sustained any damage.

My last exercise was shipping three Nighthawk 1911s to a gunsmith clear across the country for new sights. They were wrapped as described and shipped in one box. It worked out just fine. (And of course I insured the guns for full value.)

 

[dogtown tom]

fiddletown:... I wrap the gun in a shop towel then wrap it well in bubble wrap. Then I pack the box with crumpled newspapers.

1. Shop towels will hold moisture against the surface of the gun. Not good. Cold weather + warm UPS warehouse= condensation= potential for rust.
2. Bubble wrap is good. More bubble wrap is better.
3. Used baby diapers are the only packing material worse than crumpled newspaper.

Never, never, never, ever use newspaper as a packing material if you care the least little bit about damage to the firearm. Newspaper offers zero cushioning ability once compressed. Take a shoebox, put a standard house brick inside and then pack crumpled newspaper around it until you are satisfied it is well padded. Tape box securely. Now grab that shoebox and shake the living daylights out of it. Shake it like a rabid FedEx clerk who hates guns. Shake it like a USPS carrier going postal. Drop it twice on each end from a height of no less than six feet or see if you can bowl it twenty feet or more down the driveway. Now open the box and imagine that instead of a brick you had packed a mint 5 screw Ruger Blackhawk with extra 9mm conversion cylinder inside. I opened such a box. It battered the backstrap of that old Ruger something ugly and I had one very angry customer ready to go after UPS. And the fault wasn't with UPS, but with the shipper.

I receive dozens of firearms each week. At least two will arrive with exterior damage caused by insufficient, improper or complete lack of fill. That exterior damage is caused not by UPS/FedEx/USPS personnel or machinery, but by the firearm bouncing around inside the box. I've had several rifles arrive with the barrel sticking out the side of the box. Rarely will a rifle barrel penetrate the end flap, but it most certainly will tear a hole in the side unless the shipper takes the time and effort to securely wrap and pad the muzzle.

I have not bought a roll of bubble wrap, a single cardboard box or a bag of styrofoam peanuts in over a year. I reuse the packing material from incoming shipments for my next outbound shipment. Al Gore thinks I'm cool because I recycle, actually I'm just a cheapskate.

Oh, and remember insurance protects the seller, not the buyer. The buyer paid for the gun in the picture, that's what he ought to get.

 

[Frank Ettin]

dogtown tom,

Thanks for the tip on the shop towels. I'll remember that, and won't use them again. So far no harm has been done.

As to the newspapers, I don't rely on them for primary protection. That's what the bubble wrap is for. I wrap a couple of layer tightly around the gun and tape it closed. The newspaper, crumpled tightly, is only to fill the box to assure there is no movement internally. I stuff it in tightly and am confident that when I finally seal the box, the bubble wrapped gun is not going to be moving around in the box. The trick is to use plenty of newspaper, wad it all up tightly and stuff it in all gaps tightly. When I'm done, I can shake the box as hard as I can, and there is absolutely no internal movement. In fact, the box itself feels kind of like a brick.

One reason I don't like Styrofoam pellets is that it's harder to eliminate all movement. And newspaper is recyclable and biodegradable.

...remember insurance protects the seller, not the buyer. The buyer paid for the gun in the picture, that's what he ought to get...

Never shipped a gun to a buyer. I've just been in the habit of sending guns off to gunsmiths. So they'll be coming back to me, and I surely don't want them back damaged. And so far all has been well.

 

[earlthegoat2]

Its not against the law but it is not prudent really.

I used to ship more inexpensive rifles (Savages back when they were cheaper) back to the factory in a Plano case. They sent the Plano case back to me as well so I could keep on using it for different rifles.

 

[dogtown tom]

fiddletown:...One reason I don't like Styrofoam pellets is that it's harder to eliminate all movement. And newspaper is recyclable and biodegradable.

I have a love/hate relationship with the styro peanuts. I love them to fill voids when I pack a gun, I hate them when i open a box and see it filled to the brim with them. The Law of Styro Peanuts says that the lower the humidity the more they will cling to everything but what they are supposed to. I have tried to convince our four month old puppy that they are good eats, but even she (who eats everything else) passes on them.

I'm seeing more and more of the biodegradable packing peanuts. As long as someone keeps using them even the styro is being recycled.

 

[Narwhal]

Its not against the law but it is not prudent really.

Why isn't it prudent? Is theft by UPS/FedEx employees a big problem, and if so, wouldn't this be covered by the insurance you purchase from the shipper? If the recipient is required to sign for the package, it's not as if it will be sitting in front of their business/house unattended for hours. My primary concern is damage to the firearm during shipping, and I can't see how a cardboard box is in any way better than a hard case in that regard.

My primary suspicion about the gunsmith in the original message is that he pays return shipping on the work and did not want to pay for the extra weight of the hard case.

 

[TCOV]

Let's see, my opinion, find a gunsmith without an attitude who wants your business. He could have accepted your package and boxed everything for return shipment. Styrofoam peanuts are worse than worthless for packing. Lots of wadded newspaper stuffed into every void and all sides of the box has allways worked for me. I ship a lot of cast iron ware which is fragile and other items sold on Ebay. Bubble wrap is good but expensive if you have to buy very much. Double the cardboard around pointed parts. Insure anything you can't afford the loss on. I believe regulations refer to not putting a "GUN IN HERE" label on the package.

 

[Bubbles]

If we ship a rifle in a hard case then the case goes into a box.

As for dealing with styrofoam packing peanuts... don't get me started. There is nothing more obnoxious than pulling a rifle out of a box and ending up with a blizzard of the darned things flying around the office!

 

[NMPOPS]

If shop towels will hold in moisture, so will bubble wrap. If the gun to be shipped is clean and dry rust shouldn't be a problem especially if shipped overnite. The first time I shipped a gun to S&W, I called and asked them how they wanted it shipped. They recommended a box with no excess stuff they had to be responsible for. They also shipped it back to me overnite.

 

[Tom488]

You want to talk about packaging that screams "firearm"? I once bought a used Beretta CX4 Storm from a dealer off of Gunbroker, and has it shipped here to New Jersey. The dealer took the rifle, wrapped it in CLEAR BUBBLEWRAP, slapped a shipping label on it, and off it went.

My FFL called me when it arrived, telling me, "you gotta see this for yourself... and please bring a case with you".

 

[Sir Aardvark]

Apparantly shipping it in a pelican style plastic hard case makes the contents "obviously a gun" and is therefore somehow against the law?

I happened to order 2 Pelican cases that were delivered to my house by UPS, but when I received them neither one had a gun in it. Did I do something wrong to not get my free guns?