Not exactly happy with the Giraud Power Trimmer

[Point_Taken]

I guess what I'm getting at is I'm not exactly happy with it given the price it costs for one glaring problem. It indexes off the shoulder which means if you have mixed brass, you have to separate the headstamps to and "remeasure" and set for each different head stamped brass.

Now, for my .30-06 for example, I have three different brands, which isn't to big a deal to do it three different times.

But this a volume power trimmer, for say .223/5.56 and many would have all sorts of different head stamped brass and you would have to reset it each time you want to trim a different brass.

Overall, once it's dialed it, it's great, but for about $500 for a volume power trimmer, I'd probably had gone with something different had I know all this.

 

[MEHavey]

If it indexes off the shoulder.. and you have properly resized to a set headspace
dimension (which you have to do anyway before trimming), what's the problem?

 

[tcook90]

I have the Giraud Tri-Way trimmer (chucked in a drill) for 223/5.56. It works the same way as the "big" one, indexing off the shoulder. I don't sort by headstamp. After sizing, the shoulders are within a couple of thousandths...and get trimmed to within a couple of thousandths... of each other. Granted , this may not be acceptable for a benchrest shooter, but they're probably not using this type of trimmer, anyway. I set the trim length to 1.745", and cartridges come out to 1.742" - 1.747".

 

[Walkalong]

If it indexes off the shoulder.. and you have properly resized to a set headspace
dimension (which you have to do anyway before trimming), what's the problem?

Another way to look at it is if the cartridge is pushed forward against the chambers shoulder with each hit of the firing pin, is that not a good way to do it?

If you trim using the base as a reference point the brass length will be more consistent, such as using the Wilson hand trimmer, but is either better?

Don't you want the bullets to have the same exact jump all the time, is that not more important than brass lengths?

All good questions. I have done it both way and am not sure I am good enough to shoot the difference.

 

[Point_Taken]

That's a good point, never thought of it that way, I guess the question is like you said, have the same consistency when the cartridge is chambered or have more consistency in OAL from base to shoulder?

I'm not some competitive bench shooter, but would like as accurate rounds a possible for hunting and eventually long range shooting (600-1000 yards)

Another issue that might be a problem with trimming off the shoulder is crimping. The crimp die is going to based on the OAL from the base, so some may get over and under crimped

 

[higgite]

I see it coming out the same either way you trim. If you size the brass before you trim, the shoulder to base dimension is the same for all cases. If you then trim to a certain COL, it doesn’t really matter if you index off the case head (Wilson trimmer) or shoulder (Giraud), the COL can be set to be the same either way. In other words, you can produce identical cases with both trimmers. I prefer the Giraud for bulk trimming.

 

[Havok7416]

With a sized case it shouldn't matter and I have never been able to tell the difference using my Giruad anyway, other than the speed I can trim cases.

 

[jmorris]

I guess the Dillon is alone in this area. In that the brass is trimmed in the die. So it is being trimmed as it’s being sized.

I think the best thing about them is they are a lot less work than the pencil sharpener style.

 

[Point_Taken]

I'm not sure if it's something I messing up then, I have three different head stamped brass in 30-06. I wet tumbled all of them, resized/deprime them, trim them on the Giraud trimmer, and get different COL on them based on headstamp.

 

[Rule3]

I see it coming out the same either way you trim. If you size the brass before you trim, the shoulder to base dimension is the same for all cases. If you then trim to a certain COL, it doesn’t really matter if you index off the case head (Wilson trimmer) or shoulder (Giraud), the COL can be set to be the same either way. In other words, you can produce identical cases with both trimmers. I prefer the Giraud for bulk trimming.

That is how I understand it to work also?

I have the Little Crow WFT which I think works the same way. So how can brass head stamp make a difference.??

For the OP how much of a difference are you measuring??. If it's .001 +/- or something it's just variance in the cutter head.

 

[IMtheNRA]

Headstamps have absolutely nothing to do with the lengths to which the Giraud trims the case.

If you're getting different lengths, it is because your cases are not resized consistently.

How much length variation are we talking about?

 

[Point_Taken]

Yeah I went back and retrimmed everything, maybe the one brass I happen to check was wonky, but my FC headstamp brass is pretty much dead on 2.494 with maybe +/-.001 variation. Whereas the Winchester and RP headstamp brass tends to have a variation of +/- .003 of OAL.

From accuracy perspective, if that enough to matter or no. I've been reloading 9mm and .223 for plinking for a year now, but just now getting into dialing in my .30-06

 

[Rule3]

Yeah I went back and retrimmed everything, maybe the one brass I happen to check was wonky, but my FC headstamp brass is pretty much dead on 2.494 with maybe +/-.001 variation. Whereas the Winchester and RP headstamp brass tends to have a variation of +/- .003 of OAL.

From accuracy perspective, if that enough to matter or no. I've been reloading 9mm and .223 for plinking for a year now, but just now getting into dialing in my .30-06

A little bit less than an average human hair.

 

[TheDomFather]

I guess what I'm getting at is I'm not exactly happy with it given the price it costs for one glaring problem. It indexes off the shoulder which means if you have mixed brass, you have to separate the headstamps to and "remeasure" and set for each different head stamped brass.

Now, for my .30-06 for example, I have three different brands, which isn't to big a deal to do it three different times.

But this a volume power trimmer, for say .223/5.56 and many would have all sorts of different head stamped brass and you would have to reset it each time you want to trim a different brass.

Overall, once it's dialed it, it's great, but for about $500 for a volume power trimmer, I'd probably had gone with something different had I know all this.

Fully agreed you wont get consistent case lengths typically with trimmers that index off the shoulder. I use the worlds finest trimmer which also indexes off of the shoulder for .223 plinking rounds. Its fast and easy just like the Giraud but much lower price point since I am not making match ammo. For match grade ammo I suggest the following:



Thanks,
Dom

 

[Walkalong]

I think how square trimmers like the Wilson get the case mouth is more important than exact case lengths for precision. I can't prove it mind you........ And it might not matter much at all. But if you are worried about square case mouths when trimming the Wilson is hard, if not impossible, to beat.

 

[Slamfire]

I guess what I'm getting at is I'm not exactly happy with it given the price it costs for one glaring problem. It indexes off the shoulder which means if you have mixed brass, you have to separate the headstamps to and "remeasure" and set for each different head stamped brass.

What?!

Yeah I went back and retrimmed everything, maybe the one brass I happen to check was wonky, but my FC headstamp brass is pretty much dead on 2.494 with maybe +/-.001 variation. Whereas the Winchester and RP headstamp brass tends to have a variation of +/- .003 of OAL.

First of all I am not a bench rest shooter. Maybe they have seen something on target due to differences of trim length. Me, I use hand held weapons and I am the greatest source of inaccuracy.

Now what I have determined, is that you trim cases to keep the case neck from getting pinched in the throat. This case gauge, is an exact SAAMI minimum chamber. I have lots of distance between the case neck and the throat. I have over trimmed lots of times, can't tell anything on target, never seen any patterns, if the case neck holds the bullet in place, it goes where aimed.

 

[Walkalong]

I am the greatest source of inaccuracy.

All of us are, including the ones who shoot off of rests. I agree that as long as the necks are not too long, consistent in length, and square, you are OK. Even if they are off a hair, it isn't going to be a big difference on target. In Benchrest I'd bet that 80% or better of the rifles/loads on the line were capable of winning in the right hands.

 

[jmorris]

I think how square trimmers like the Wilson get the case mouth is more important than exact case lengths for precision. I can't prove it mind you.....

All the better, makes it more difficult for someone to disprove.

 

[Rule3]

All the better, makes it more difficult for someone to disprove.

But then we have "Myth Busting"!!

 

[Walkalong]

Think of the inside edge of the case mouth as the "crown" as the bullet exits the case. We want the bullet to enter the bore as straight and as centered as we can.