Not using the xpander die on .45 ACP

[Dmath]

(Sorry, subject line should read "expander die")

Okay, I must be missing something.

For six years now, I have dutifully used an expander die on my .45 ACP brass. But today I tried not belling the case, and, whaddaya know, the bullet seats just fine. It feels like seating a bullet in a case that has been expanded. My reasoning is, if I don't bell the case first, I save that much working of the brass, and therefore extend the case life by some unknown number of cycles.

So what am I missing here? They supply that die for a reason.

Will the result be that the cartridge develops excessive pressure during the firing cycle?

 

[matworz]

Jacketed bullets, probably fine. I use plated. No way. Peels the plating off. Lead also - no way. Will shave off lead.

 

[Dmath]

Jacketed bullets, probably fine. I use plated. No way. Peels the plating off. Lead also - no way. Will shave off lead.

Yes. I should have said I'm using jacketed .45 hardball.

 

[rcmodel]

+1

If you can seat jacketed bullets without expanding & belling?
More power to ya.

It simply will not work with lead bullets though.

And probably not with plated either, unless they have a tapered or beveled base, and you chamfer the case mouths first.

Which is more work & time then using the expander die in the first place.

Myself?

I like to expand and bell enough to hand start bullets in each case after powder charging and inspection so I can pick them up out of the loading block without spilling the powder.

rc

 

[Certaindeaf]

If it crushes or shaves, you need to flare so it doesn't.. if it doesn't, you don't.

 

[Dmath]

It doesn't crush or shave. So I guess I'm home free. . .

. . . until some horrible thing happens and the reloading gods come down on me with lightning bolts.

(By "reloading gods" I mean guys who have been reloading since 1959 and can seat a bullet with their bare fingers.)

 

[ArchAngelCD]

Sounds like you got lucky with the bullets you're using. Good for you... I load mostly lead so you know...

 

[FROGO207]

I find if the base of the bullet cooperates this is an option but for lead and Rainier or X-treme plated 45 ACP I do have to expand the necks. Also some brands of brass work better than others doing this due to wall thickness. Anything to work the brass less is always a good thing.

 

[dickttx]

The expander is only 1/3 of that die. The other 2/3 is flare and powder through.
If you are not using a Pro Auto Disk you do not need the powder through. If you do not need to flare the mouth, you do not need to use that part of it (the die can be adjusted up to where it does not flare). If you can seat your jacketed bullet without expanding then you don't need that part either. Often just a little chamfering of the inside of the case mouth will let you seat bullets without expanding.
As others have mentioned, that will usually not work for lead and plated bullets.
Seems kind of funny to me that in one post you will read that there is almost no limit on the number of times a 45 ACP case can be reloaded, and that you will probably lose them before they wear out. The next post says to always minimize the flare to prolong case life.
I have never had a case mouth split on a pistol cartridge. I have a hundred NEW, high dollar, purchased, Starline cases in 38 Super that I have loaded at least 26 times and have no sign of a split case mouth.

 

[Dmath]

The expander is only 1/3 of that die. The other 2/3 is flare and powder through.
If you are not using a Pro Auto Disk you do not need the powder through. If you do not need to flare the mouth, you do not need to use that part of it (the die can be adjusted up to where it does not flare). If you can seat your jacketed bullet without expanding then you don't need that part either. Often just a little chamfering of the inside of the case mouth will let you seat bullets without expanding.
As others have mentioned, that will usually not work for lead and plated bullets.
Seems kind of funny to me that in one post you will read that there is almost no limit on the number of times a 45 ACP case can be reloaded, and that you will probably lose them before they wear out. The next post says to always minimize the flare to prolong case life.
I have never had a case mouth split on a pistol cartridge. I have a hundred NEW, high dollar, purchased, Starline cases in 38 Super that I have loaded at least 26 times and have no sign of a split case mouth.

I have had a number of .38 Special cases split on me over the years. Most of them split in the middle, not the mouth. I do NOT use upper-end loads. I go for the low-middle range. So I'm thinking these cases just gave out from old age.

(Hmmm. possible thread drift.)

 

[dickttx]

All that I have had split were along the sides. One of which was a new R-P 45 Colt case. A split down the side would not be from expanding or flaring the case.

 

[gamestalker]

First of all, I only load jacketed bullets only, so I have not belled, and thus have not needed to crimp auto loading rimless brass in decades. You are right, it does reduce working of the brass, and, by doing it this way you are achieving the maximum obtainable amount of neck tension possible, and it takes less time to do.

The only thing I do though is, I chamfer the inside of the case mouth lightly so the bullets will set up perfectly straight, assuring a straight seating operation as well. It only take a couple seconds to chamfer each of them.

GS

 

[mljdeckard]

I have wondered.

I do bell slightly when using plated bullets, mostly as a precaution. I wonder if I need to bell more prominently, I do it as little as possible because I don't want to mess with the case more than I have to. I have mangled maybe three out of about a thousand, and I'm not sure whether it was the cause. It might have just been a flawed case. If it seats, I don't worry if it shaves a little plating every once in a while.

I suppose I might just switch exclusively to jacketed bullets and not worry about it.

 

[murf]

mljdeckard,

those 3 mangledd cases were probably extra short and did not get belled at all.

gamestalker,

how do you seat a bullet that is larger in diameter than the i.d. of the case mouth? i would think the base of the bullet would crush the mouth every time. is there an extra step you perform in your routine? are you using bevel-based bullets?

murf

 

[Dmath]

First of all, I only load jacketed bullets only, so I have not belled, and thus have not needed to crimp auto loading rimless brass in decades. You are right, it does reduce working of the brass, and, by doing it this way you are achieving the maximum obtainable amount of neck tension possible, and it takes less time to do.

The only thing I do though is, I chamfer the inside of the case mouth lightly so the bullets will set up perfectly straight, assuring a straight seating operation as well. It only take a couple seconds to chamfer each of them.

GS

Yes, I was wondering about that, too. Maximum neck tension would seem to be desirable in every way, unless possibly that increases chamber pressure significantly. Does anybody know if it does?

 

[zeke]

gave up "expanding" 45 acp cases years ago. They do get belled , to start bullet. This increases neck tension, and promotes more consistent powder burn. it can slightly increase pressure, as measured by a slight veocity increase.

This is done with an expanding /bell die with the stem turned down, or a Lee universal belling die. Then Redding comp seating die. Am not using swaged , or plated bullets.

 

[Catpop]

I have to slightly expand/bell for plated or it wipes plating off one side

 

[James2]

Yes, I was wondering about that, too. Maximum neck tension would seem to be desirable in every way, unless possibly that increases chamber pressure significantly. Does anybody know if it does?

My thinking is that it will not increase chamber pressure in any significant amount.