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Discussion in 'Rallying Point and Range Discussions' started by KONY, Nov 2, 2005.

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  1. KONY

    KONY Member

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    Anyone buy their 7.62x39 at gun shows? If so, who has the best deal on Wolf?
     
  2. mtnbkr

    mtnbkr Member

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    My brother bought his last 500 rounds from the Chantilly show this summer. Dunno which dealer, but they were all within a dollar or two of each other.

    I take the SKS is a keeper? :D

    Chris
     
  3. KONY

    KONY Member

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    Yup! I was really happy with the way it shot. Now, I only shot it at 35 feet but I gotta start somewhere. I'm really glad I have the Paratrooper as I still got "arm-weary" pretty quick. But I just need to put in the time to work on my mechanics. :)
     
  4. KONY

    KONY Member

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  5. Smurfslayer

    Smurfslayer Member

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    Impulse buy!

    Sinsaba: Yes, those are the ones!

    Ok guys, Gun o' the week will be the Beretta PX4 Storm. I traded my seldom used full size Witness .45 (actually sold it outright not 10' after walking in the D/C show). Dale City. Aside from being in Prince William County, the show staff is friendly, courteous and has no problem with ammo, or you loading up before leaving. This is a step in the right direction. Anyway, Trader Jerry had them for $520 w/ 3 mags.

    For those not in the know, the PX4 is Beretta USA's response to the LE / Gov't contract sales being chiseled away at by Sig, H&K w/ their fancy triggers, and dissatisfied Glock contracts. Sinsaba, no offense, but how many times can your department stand to replace the entire service pistol itself and still call them serviceable...2? 3?

    At a certain class recently, I listened to someone explain how Glocks warranty was only limited to a couple of years... But they have always just fixed broken guns free - But wait :scrutiny: broken guns? :scrutiny:

    then went on to explain how he got a handful of replacement parts at some Glock sponsored event to fix a broken one:scrutiny: broken what I wonder? Obviously the truth is somewhere between they never break and they break all the time, and I liken this to the cult of the Mac10 which has a similar rap in the Submachine gun world, albeit a little more "Barrio". A lot of shooters have a bit of an imagination about how reliable their pet gun is. My Mac is a cheap piece of heavy steel that works about 90-95% reliability, probably 98-99 on factory rounds - BUT that means about 5 malfs in a range session for me... I've actually seen some of the Glock guys come off the line after breaking a part, look someone in the eye and proclaim that same gun has never failed... :scrutiny:

    I must not have that kind of success, because I've had several guns which didn't stack up or broke. Among them: An SKS, 2 Mossberg 500's, a Sears 12 gauge, 2 Beretta 96's, Taurus PT145 and I'm sure I'm shorting a few. Anyway, back to the PX4 Storm. If none of you ever shot a Beretta 8k series Cougar, well, it was ok. Not spectacular, but OK. Compact but HEAVY. The PX4 took the stronger rotating barrel operating system of the Cougar and enlarged/modularized it to try and bring it "mainstream". Reassembling the Cougar was an absolute B!tch because you could not keep the rotating barrel & lug assembly from moving while replacing the slide. This alone was enough for me to sell the 8040 I had. The PX4 addresses this, but weakly IMO. It's still more intricate to reassemble, but it does lock in place w/o moving, thus allowing easier reassembly. Nowhere close to the modified Browning design, but enough to bring Beretta into the "ease of maintenance" league of the other top designs. The PX4 is hammer fired, a preference of mine, and I think the action feels very, very good. Trigger pull is a long, but not ridiculous double action at about 9-10 pounds, smooth, no stacking. Actually very, very good as far as DA/SA guns go. S/A is about 4.5 pounds(?) - just guessing here - typical of Beretta. Reset is positive, but not as positive as H&K LEM, Glock, P99. As good possibly better than other DA/SA offerings.

    Ergos: Excellent. The slide release is reachable for average hands, trigger reach is good, safety/decocker I'm undecided on. I don't like mechanical safeties, but I'll give it a fair chance. No accessories I can find yet, but my initial impressions are favorable.

    I'm light on 9mm, so if you want to put any serious rounds through the G.O.W., pick up some and give Smurfslayer a hand wringing out the new gun. :cool: Let's see if the oldest gun company has put out a winner, also ran, or dog...
     
  6. KONY

    KONY Member

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    Hmmm ... OK! You talked me into it! :D


    Sounds like a case of mistaken identity ... surely, you must've mistaken their gun for a Glock. :D
     
  7. Sinsaba

    Sinsaba Member

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    You will find me unlike a large number of Glock owners. Yes, I swear by my G17. Yes, I have yet to see a pistol that is easier to maintain. and Yes, it isn't perfection.

    This implement has moving parts therefore it can and will break. I have yet to have one break but then I've only put about 5K - 8K through my G17 and 2K through my G19. There is plenty of time. Right after I got my G17 I had one count them one failure to eject (my own doing not being used to it I "limp wristed" it. Once my trouble was explained to me I have never done it again). I feel that the Glock series of pistols are fine guns.

    However, I'm not part of this cult that thinks the sun shines out of Gaston Glock's A**

    For example the Styer M9 I bought feels much better than my G19, it carries better than my G19 (being thinner it isn't as inclined to print), and with the Blade tech holster I bought it fairly leaps into my hand when I reach for it. I need to practice with it more as I'm not as accurate with it as I am with my Glocks. The biggest down side that I see is that after 200 - 400 rounds you actually have to clean it because it will malfunction if you don't (just to see, I have put upwards of 1000 rounds through my G17 without cleaning it and no problems at all).

    Again, good points and bad points.

    I'm not sure what you meant about replacing the entire service pistol 2 to 3 times. Could you enlighten me?
     
  8. KONY

    KONY Member

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    Yea, I'd like to know about the replacements as well. I, for one, really have nothing against the Glock as I just pick on them in jest because they're the popular pick at this time. I do feel, however, that it does leave alot to be desired ergonomically. However, I recognize that reliability is their main selling point, which I cannot attest to because I have not owned one. Probably never will either unless their pricing gets more competitive. I wonder if this will happen soon as the competition seems to be catching up. :scrutiny:
     
  9. Sinsaba

    Sinsaba Member

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    Order placed to Natchess

    500 rounds .357

    Half of the .357 (including shipping) is $52. Should arrive by Friday.

    BTW KONY, when I opened the paint I couldn't get it to mix... (pigment had separated otu) how long have you had that?
     
  10. Smurfslayer

    Smurfslayer Member

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    Here I was just about to follow up about how Mike shoots next to me frequently, and you never see him shaking his head, tinkering w/ his poly-pistol etc....

    You're right, they're fine; everyone produces bad examples in an otherwise good line...

    A couple of times, DC MPD has had the entire inventory of glocks replaced. It made the WaPo at least once. I heard some MPD officers whining about them early in the 90's at Myrtle Grove (southern MD shooting range). I was also witness to a couple of the early guns' malfs there. I balance that experience with the current line, which is quite obviously using a proven operating system, and doing it well enough to stay in business. Every once in a while though, the company makes a screw up. The "frame replacent" program a while back, the 60 minutes endorsement of gun control - which the company stands by still... There have been a couple of other medium profile department level incidents. Moreso than other manufacturers? I don't know. I don't think they were the hot **** everyone made them out to be at first, but much moreso now, for sure. Alas, like the vaunted 1911 there's reality and how folks "fondly remember" them ;) And that's with every gun.

    So...Are you going to join Smurfslayer's & Kony's band of merry men and help wring the crap out of this new PX4 or what? :evil:
     
  11. KONY

    KONY Member

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    Cool. :cool:

    Um, a few months. I never opened any of them so I wouldn't know. :confused:
     
  12. KONY

    KONY Member

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    Tough job but someone's gotta do it. ;)
     
  13. Sinsaba

    Sinsaba Member

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    Count on it!! I wouldn't feel right about leaving all that work to you two!!

    Besides, I'd really like to try some Beretta besides the Storm! There's another poly gun that had problems in the beginning but it seems as if they have them worked out for now.
     
  14. Smurfslayer

    Smurfslayer Member

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    Alright, now there's 3 of us. What a coincidence - I have 3 magaziness for the PX4... I think you're talking about their 9k guns. I've not heard a lot about them, and what I have heard has been no better than third hand. One of the common threads I personally noticed between the 90 series and 8k series was that the 9mm worked very well, the .40's not as well.

    I think it's good to see the "Wundernine" making a comeback, competition improves the breed. I took the PX4 apart to get the excess oil off, and the reassembly is good, and better than the 8k series, but not as simple as some out there. One nice thing about them, no magazine safety.

    This gun is going to get a thorough work out...
     
  15. countertop

    countertop Member

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    Had A G23 for a long time and put a lot of rounds through it. Never had a problem and trusted it as well (or even more) than any other gun I have ever owned.

    However, it hurt my hand to shoot it. I think it was a combination of the .40 S&W ammo and the medium sized plastic frame, but it had too much recoil and my wrists would ache after a range session, so I got rid of it.

    However, I wouldn't hesitate to get one again in a split second (except for the fact that they are pretty ugly - I like the look of an exposed hammer)
     
  16. Smurfslayer

    Smurfslayer Member

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    I forgot to mention earlier:

    Background check time for the D/C show was maybe 10 minutes, tops... Way better than the anti-gun C&E shows....

    Of course, nowhere near as many people.

    Among the 'treasures', some small autos with a "pink, pearl like" grip. That's the best I can describe it. So, I look over at TOWMBO "whaddaya think"?

    Me: "I can see you with one of those"
    TOWMBO: "shyeah. That is way to pimp."
    Me: "It's pimp if it's a guy gun, but it's 'ho' if it's a chick gun"
    TOWMBO: <scowls disapprovingly>
    Me: "what"
    TOWMBO: "don't you have a gun to buy or something?"

    :D :D :D Sometimes I'm so good, I amaze myself.
     
  17. Sinsaba

    Sinsaba Member

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    Would it still be pimp of Slateman bought it? :neener:
     
  18. KONY

    KONY Member

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    Happens to me too. Now if I can figure out how to amaze the others around me. :)

    Been thinking shotguns lately (damn you, Smurf!) and remembered that we never made good on our plan to visit Bull Run. I know next to nothing about rifles and even less about shotguns so I need to start furthering my education. As of right now, not sure if I could manage operating a pump (Remington 870/Mossberg 500, etc.) so I may need to "Pass go and collect a semi-auto" (Remington 1100). However, then I need to decide what guage as I want something all-purpose but don't know if I could handle a 12guage. Thoughts?
     
  19. KONY

    KONY Member

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    But of course ... anything for the ladies! :neener:
     
  20. Sinsaba

    Sinsaba Member

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    I think someone in the know ought to take us shotgun deprived persons (SDPs) out for some show and tell! :D
     
  21. KONY

    KONY Member

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    Agreed! :)
     
  22. mtnbkr

    mtnbkr Member

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    A 20g would be my first choice outside of the 12 for "general use". In fact, I kinda wish I had bought a 20 since most of my actual shooting is on the trap line, not hunting. It's still cheap to feed and powerful enough in the 3" loads to do most anything a 12 will do. A 16 is good, but not as common, so more expensive to feed. Anything smaller than 20 becomes too specialized to use as a GP gun.

    I think you can handle a 12. My brother (we've talked about him) can shoot my 12g 870. He has trouble racking the slide, but he has no problem with the recoil. Recoil is mostly in the mind anyway. I can go 100rounds with my 12 in a day (how about several rounds of trap and skeet :evil: ). My shoulder is a bit tender at the end, but nothing I can't handle with a couple advil.

    There's more to recoil than gauge. Proper fit, bore, gun weight, etc all play a role. A weighty and properly fitted 12 with a gentle forcing cone will be a pussycat to shoot, while the featherweight 20 with a sharp forcing cone and poor fit will turn you black and blue.

    Have you considered a double? Either SxS or over/under? There are some good, yet inexpensive models out there now. Less fussy than a semi and fewer controls to mess with.

    Chris
     
  23. KONY

    KONY Member

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    Nope, because I have no idea what constitutes a "double", "SxS" or "over/under". :) Thus, I will have to do more research into this. Also, if your brother could rack the 870 then maybe I can do it.
     
  24. mtnbkr

    mtnbkr Member

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    A double is a two barreled shotgun. A SxS (side by side) is one where the barrels are next to each other (thing granny's shotgun in the Beverly Hillbillies). An over/under is a double barrel shotgun where the barrels are stacked on top of each other.

    He can rack the gun, but not very well. I'm sure he would do better with practice, as will you.

    Chris
     
  25. KONY

    KONY Member

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    Thanks for the break-down. I suspected that might be the distinction but wasn't sure. Now, as for the racking, the thing that concerns me is that if I wanted to use it for HD, I would probably be less able to rack it in a tense situation. This is why I prefer second-strike capability on my semi-auto pistols (or just a wheelgun instead). I hear even folks with full use of both arms question their ability to do this in such a situation. Plus, they say semi's make recreational shooting easier as well. Anyway, I look forward to learning from you guys. We need to get out to Bull Run on a good day and get me and Sinsaba up to speed. In the meantime, I will get more familiar with my SKS. :)
     
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