NP ruling question

[chris in va]

I had a discussion with a guy on another non-gun board about the rule change for national park carry. I'd appreciate it if someone could clarify/correct what his statement said.

it won't change much...although the law has been changed, the individual National Park I think is still allowed to set its own policy...which I don't see many of them changing to allow CC even though there is now no federal law banning it, although some might allow it. I think the ones that do allow it will only do so until the rangers have to start responding to "shots fired". I spoke to a ranger about this recently and he was not in favor of the law, cause he said no matter what the case, if there is a shot fired they have to respond in a serious manner...and if they find reds out shooting beer cans at camp sites in the NP's, or target practice, or whatever, it creates a huge problem for the rangers.

 

[Tirod]

Bogus argument. I don't see how shooting beer cans equates to CCW. Concealed Carry in a National Park is for protection, not to hide a gun because you want to shoot it there instead of a range. If someone needs to protect themselves, let the Rangers come. Backup is a good thing.

Rednecks shooting beer cans? It sounds like they already had the problem, CCW or not.

 

[edSky]

Down here we have an entire town that is a National Park, Hot Springs, AR. The paper this morning mentioned that you can stroll down the street but not go into any of the historic bath houses because they are considered federal buildings.

According to Arkansas Statute 5-73-301, concealed permit holders cannot take firearms into state offices or buildings or into an area where it is prohibited by federal law. Title 18, United States Code, Section 930, bans firearms from all federal buildings.

“The conceal carry permit is what gives you the ability [to carry a firearm] - this is not a right, but a privilege granted to you by the state,” Fernandez said. “So the first thing is the state has to have granted you a permit to carry a concealed weapon.

Fernandez said those with guns are still barred from bringing weapons into any park buildings.

“The permit allows you to walk up and down Bathhouse Row, but if you want to enter any of the buildings, even a restroom, you have to take the firearm to your car or give it to someone else, who has a permit, to hold for you.”

As far as the more traditional parks, I can't see this law changing anything for the worse. I've said elsewhere before that if there are 100 folks with permits carrying in 75% of the country, and now they can carry in 100% of the country, the rest of the populace is still mixing with those 100 folks who are carrying. But now it can more spread out. More in the parks, less in the non-parks. However, the numbers will be so low as to be meaningless.

 

[Oro]

The information he gave you is just not correct...

Individual parks are not allowed to set the policy. They are required to follow the policy of the state in which they are located. Presumably, for multi-state parks the rules would switch at the border. The ability to concealed carry in the park is reserved to those legal to do so legally in the state where the park is located. Thus, a person who does not have a cc license valid in CA cannot carry in a US National Park located in CA. Park rangers can enforce the law, but they cannot change it.

Keep in mind rules are very different between National Parks and National Forests. They are not the same legal or political entities and are administered by different agencies. Gun laws on US National Forest lan is more liberal and recreational shooting is allowed. This regulation change does not making recreational shooting in National Parks legal.

 

[M203Sniper]

Title 18, United States Code, Section 930, bans firearms from all federal buildings.

“The conceal carry permit is what gives you the ability [to carry a firearm] - this is not a right, but a privilege granted to you by the state,” Fernandez said. “So the first thing is the state has to have granted you a permit to carry a concealed weapon.

The next law to get the red pen; USC18 section 930.

Flawed Logic in BOLD

 

[SAG0282]

As others have said, bogus argument. The ruling on the DOI page specifically mentions the forbidding of target shooting, so that's illegal before and after the rule. As far as individual parks, they can't make their own rules but states can make their own rules for their national parks as evidenced by the latter part of the original press release that mentions that.