NRA Article - Taurus Judge

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RCouch

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The Rifleman has a pretty good article on "The Judge" in this months issue. It doesn't cover any new ground but it's short and includes info on some shot shells and .45 cal loads.
 
I want to like this gun, but it has gimmick written all over it. From the write up it appears that it serves neither the function of a revolver or a shotgun well. Just becuase something can do two things half-a$$ed, doesn't make it great, or even deserving of a nod.

And the final line about south Florida judges packing it beneath their robes. I call BS on that one.
 
I think it does make a good survival gun for someone who dont want to carry a rifle. Although, as a game getter, your range would be limited.
 
I know about three families who have bought the gun for the lady folk. The idea being that they are not shooters. The gun will be loaded with a shotshell and when trouble comes, the lady of the house will probably close her eyes, squeal and fire. You can't miss with a shot shell.

This sounds nasty on my part but I expressed my preference for a conventional firearm and significant training.
 
I think it does make a good survival gun for someone who dont want to carry a rifle. Although, as a game getter, your range would be limited.
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As a .45 Colt, the free bore is going to negatively affect accuracy and the shot shells are worthless on game, totally worthless. You couldn't even kill a snake with it without being within striking distance of the snake.

I have a .45/.410 contender barrel that has some merit as a survival gun. The .410 range is 20 yards on most game (10" barrel with a screw in full choke that stops the spin of the shot column) and the .45 Colt is accurate enough to kill game to 50 yards. But, the Judge would be best used in survival situations as a drop line weight for cat fishing.

JMHO, of course, informed HO. The gun's best use is with 5 pellet 000 loads at home defense ranges as I see it. It's no outdoor gun.
 
If I need to shoot snakes, I'll just get a box of snake loads and use them in my regular revolver.
 
You can't miss with a shot shell.
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There's many a rabbit, squirrel, pheasant, duck, goose and quail that would disagree.

If you look at the data posted in the AR article, you see the spread is minimal at in-house distances. At 5 yards, buckshot patterened into 8" or 5" circles (depending on the make.) That's not enough spread to compensate for a close-your-eyes-and-yank-on-the-trigger shooting style.

To those who think this would be a good survival hunting gun, I say, "Take it hunting and see how you do. Try it for recreational hunting before you stake your life on it."
 
I'm actually considering one of these as a house gun. Don't get me wrong, I don't think it's the most versatile weapon out there, but for some purposes, it could work quite well IMHO.

I live in a townhouse development with neighbors on both sides and paper-thin walls. Plus, with the layout of my place, it would be impossible for the need to arise where I would have to take a shot longer than 15 feet.

Everything I've read seems to point to 000 .410 buckshot rounds being quite accurate at short ranges in the gun. Plus, every time you pull the trigger, it's like firing a volley of .380. And the barrel is rifled, so 45 Colt accuracy seems to be on par with any similar short-barreled gun from the reviews I've read.
 
I've had one for awhile and agree with the statements about it's limitations. If, however, you live in a rural area and had used a shot loaded .38 like I have then the Taurus is much better for snakes, etc. Don't think it would be anyones first choice for normal hunting, but I've found it very effective as a utility weapon. If I was a Judge, I think I could find something easier to carry than "The Judge". It's heavy and long on the draw.
 
I shot one yesterday at the range. First, several 'cowboy' loads... at small rebounding steel bp plates. They were safe - at 12 yd - I didn't hit one - made ~ 10-12" circle on the berm behind the plates (~15 yd), mixed DA/SA. One .410 #6 DA - patterned a bit broad on a large paper target (12 yd). The density of the shot could have permitted a smaller copperhead to have remained totally unscathed.

The gun: Typical Taurus trigger. If it cleans up well with spring changes, like that last 66 I did, it should be improveable to fair. Seriously, it is not a problem for it's intended use. Size wise, it was smaller than it looked in the display case. It was lighter, too... must be some Al in that frame. Sights are fine - the accuracy of the .45 Colts was poor - but I doubt better sights would help there. Recoil was brisk, but controllable - the funky 'ribber' grips helped. I bet it appears in many folks collection, as it rates a high mark for 'novelty'. I am so happy I got to test one - I certainly won't be getting one now.

Stainz

PS I walked down the line afterwards at the public range and took aim hand held with some 255gr LSWC @ 810 fps at the 100yd steel plates (12"). I hit them twice out of six times... about normal for my 4" 625 Mountain Gun. Now, that's a proper .45 Colt 'protector'!
 
As a .45 Colt, the free bore is going to negatively affect accuracy and the shot shells are worthless on game, totally worthless. You couldn't even kill a snake with it without being within striking distance of the snake.

I have a .45/.410 contender barrel that has some merit as a survival gun. The .410 range is 20 yards on most game (10" barrel with a screw in full choke that stops the spin of the shot column) and the .45 Colt is accurate enough to kill game to 50 yards. But, the Judge would be best used in survival situations as a drop line weight for cat fishing.
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Wouldn't the freebore be the same as on the Contender barrel?
 
Wouldn't the freebore be the same as on the Contender barrel?
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No. The Contender is a single barrel gun, with chamber and barrel all machined into the same piece of steel. There is no gap between chamber and barrel.

The Judge is a revolver. The chambers are in the cylinder, a separate piece from the barrel. Because the chambers must be long enough to accept the .410 shotgun shell, they are much too long for the .45 Colt, so there is a long, smooth freebore in each chamber -- from the mouth of the .45 case to the face of the cylinder, which leaves the bullet unguided.

By the time the .45 bullet reaches the cylinder gap, it is likely unstable and off-center.
 
The 'free bore', if measured from the end of the .45 Colt case, max length = 1.285" (And whose OD is .480"!) to the case mouth step at ~2.5" (Like the 2.5" .410 chambers in the Taurus 4410.), where it reduces to 'barrel' diameter .452", would be 1.215" minimum - with a 3" .410 chamber increasing that another .5". So, a nominal .452" .45 Colt bullet gets to sail down a 1.215-1.715+" .480+" tube, even in a rifled barrel, before finding the properly sized/grooved barrel. In the revolver, you also have the alignment -of the cylinder chamber exit bore being both coaxial and diameter matched with the forcing cone/barrel entry - and the gap between them, too. Nope, a .45 Colt doesn't stand a chance in a dual purpose .45/.410 firearm. Gads, then there is that infamous 'tight chamber/black powder chamber' debacle.

Still, 'The Judge' has that novelty value going for it...

Stainz
 
I realize ther is a B/C gap to consider, but no more than any other revolver, The freebore, itself has to be the same on the contender, however, if it is to accept the .410 Shotgun shell. Now granted, the 10" barrel contender would have more inherent accuracy, as would the Single shot configuration. I was only curious as to how the freebore would be much longer in the Judge.
 
I realize ther is a B/C gap to consider, but no more than any other revolver
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What affects accuracy is the orientation and condition of the bullet when it reaches the gap. If it is not aligned properly -- as it cannot be in that long, smooth-sided chamber -- it will be tipped.
 
What affects accuracy is the orientation and condition of the bullet when it reaches the gap. If it is not aligned properly -- as it cannot be in that long, smooth-sided chamber -- it will be tipped.
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I'm not saying that that isn't true, but a .45 bullet rattling down the freebore on a Contender barrel would be subject to some similar level of tipping, also, as it reaches the rifling. The .006 B/C gap would not contribute an extra inordinate amount of tipping.
 
Finally got this month's "American Rifleman" (Florida is a black hole for mail) so I could read the article about The Judge...a comment or two:

1. Seemed like a good idea at the time.

2. What WERE they thinking?

3. I know, lets modify one of our revolvers so it can shoot both the .45 AND the .410 and we can put in a secret compartment and a compass and ...

4. It's an answer in search of a problem.

Also, I agree with the comment above about Florida judges carrying these things. OK. You want to be armed with a handgun for self defense. You can already carry legally concealed (you're a judge, you see), you will be sitting down most of the time and whatever you carry will be under long black robes. And, you're making enough money to buy whatever you want.

You're going to carry this monster of a revolver? I doubt it.
 
Note that an off-the-shelf .45LC snake round holds about 70% as much shot as a 2 1/2" .410 shell.

Why not just use a regular snake load, and a regular .44 or .45 revolver?

If you need more shot, or bigger shot, you'd be far better served by a shotgun. If not, a regular snake load will do fine.
 
Some years back, there was a D-MAX "Sidewinder", actually tested in the AR's 'Dope Bag'. It was a lengthened Ruger SBH frame - with a long .45/.410 cylinder (I don't recall whether it was 2.5" or 3" .410 chambers.). They also made a 5-shot SBH framed .45 Colt - like the other version, it had a ~6" barrel. D-MAX was picked up by Magnum Research as part of their "B.F.R." line. They ultimately dropped the .45 Colt variant - CDNN closeout ~ $450-$500 - but kept the .45/.410 version - at $999 MSRP (Same size as their .45-70 BFR). Additionally, there is another US company that has made only a blocky-looking 3" chamber .45/.410 short barrel for years... looks like it was modelled using Lego. I think it is currently available from them to your ffl for ~$600. So, the 'dream' continues... or is it a nightmare?

Stainz
 
I haven't seen anyone else comment on it, but the NRA article has a big (8" wide) closeup of the cylinder, showing both .410 and .45 Colt rounds loaded.

What I noticed, and what my wife (no gun person, at all) noticed, was that the machining on the ejector star looked awful. :barf: Scraped up, chewed up and irregular.
 
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