Sry0fcr
Member
Idiots. I took my son to his first gun show before his first birthday. Apparently he wants a LW Commander XSE... and I'm inclined to get him on sooner rather than later. Take that New York. 
NY State says "No Kids at Gun Shows"
- Thread starter ky_man
- Start date
- Status
Im283
Member
you could not pay me to visit New York, seriously I don't know how much of the bribe would have to be before I would be willing to go there.
I say it time and again, I don't know how you all live there.
I say it time and again, I don't know how you all live there.
scout26
Member
Yep and while we're at it,kids need to banned from Book Stores (where there are books and magazines that have articles and pictures of guns, not to mention some magazines with pictures of nekkid and/or scantily clad women, like Playboy, National Geographic, People, and Muscle and Fitness they need to banned from the library also, as they have the same books and magazines.
Last edited:
Copy that, Scout26! What's next: banning first person shooter video games? Movies? Books? (Huck Finn? Harry Potter?) Where will it end? How many freedoms are we going to give away? A youngster (or oldster, for that matter) can obtain information on bomb building, chemical weapons manufacture, pyrotechnics, nuclear physics, gun manufacture, etc, right down there are your local library, your local Barnes and Noble, or your local internet kiosk. While we are at it, are skateboards, skis, roller-skates, jump-ropes and hula-hoops completely safe? What about the that most lethal of all human inventions: the staircase?! 
Last edited:
If the intent was to restrict 'irresponsible' people, they'd have done things differently. But that's not their intent: their intent is to cut off the 'gun culture' at its knees by dissuading children from a positive interaction with firearms and distancing gun owning parents from spending quality gun-related time with their children (ie they'll have to chose between spending the weekend at the gun show and with their children, instead of doing both).
That's OK, though: almost everyone from NY who goes to gun shows goes to gun shows in PA, not NY.
It's a shame: some of my fondest early memories are from gun shows.
Ohio Rifleman
Member
+∞ (That symbol means "infinity" for those of you who don't know)
I'm now 20, but I remember being under 18. You're basically not even human. The law pretty much says that EVERYONE under 18 is a criminal, irresponsible and stupid. And it is exactly like saying "all blacks smoke crack." Nobody would say that because it's a stupidly broad generalization. But, for some reason, stupidly broad generalizations are acceptable for those under some arbitrary age. And, of course, in public schools, the Constitution is null and void. No freedom of anything. Speech, religion, assembly, NOTIHNG. Public schools are little police states.
Sir Aardvark
Member
"The epidemic of violent incidents that have been occurring in our
schools throughout our country must be stopped. "
Sounds to me like schools are a dangerous place for kids to be.
Maybe they should make it illegal for kids under the age of 18 to be allowed in a school.
schools throughout our country must be stopped. "
Sounds to me like schools are a dangerous place for kids to be.
Maybe they should make it illegal for kids under the age of 18 to be allowed in a school.
Autolycus
Member
Got to love the feel good measure. It really bothers me that they would try to pull something like this. I feel the government should let the people decide on whether they wish to take their children to a gun show instead of deciding for us.
IA_farmboy
Member
I have to wonder how one defines a "gun show". Would children be allowed inside a "hunting expo"? Where is this going to lead? Are children not going to be allowed inside Dick's Sporting Goods to get new running shoes, or tents, because they also sell firearms there?
There's a "gun show" in the area probably four times a year. I get there when I can because I can see all kinds of things. These events attract a certain kind of crowd and many people want to get in on it to sell more than just firearms, ammunition, and accessories. You'll find people selling camping equipment, clothing, boots, knives, decorations and knick knacks (ornamental decoys, stuffed animals, etc.), fishing poles, bows and arrows, and even toys for the future hunter.
This is just going too far.
There's a "gun show" in the area probably four times a year. I get there when I can because I can see all kinds of things. These events attract a certain kind of crowd and many people want to get in on it to sell more than just firearms, ammunition, and accessories. You'll find people selling camping equipment, clothing, boots, knives, decorations and knick knacks (ornamental decoys, stuffed animals, etc.), fishing poles, bows and arrows, and even toys for the future hunter.
This is just going too far.
bigun15
Member
So they told teenagers not to smoke, drink, do drugs, drive irresponsibly...and we do them all.
So the solution is to tell us not to get guns. Huh. Maybe they want us to get them...
So the solution is to tell us not to get guns. Huh. Maybe they want us to get them...
Don't Tread On Me
Member
Not meant as a threadjack, but....
This bill is largely irrelevant. What matters here is a lesson. A lesson to the many thousands of gun owners who actually believe in some "mild" forms of gun control, like child locks or NICS. Most of what the NRA often supports.
Doing such a thing is submitting to the will, desire and goals of the very people who believe in and try to pass bills like this "no kids at gun shows" bill.
It is obvious that this bill is so absolutely, astronomically absurd on every conceivable level that one should clearly understand that there is NO limit to what the gun grabbers demand.
Even after every single firearm is banned and confiscated, rest assured, they will not stop. They will go after archery, airguns, and even swords. Yes. Swords.
As a result of their ultimate goals, you can see their mindset clearly. It is this same disturbing and sick mindset that has justified and created most if not all of the "mild" or "common sense" gun control measures that literally a huge majority of gun owners agree with. Even many die hard RKBA supporters. If you thought that NICS was ok, you're wrong. You fell in with those who believe in bills like the one this thread was made to discuss.
There is no "common sense" middle ground. All gun control is evil and unconstitutional. If the plain old Second Amendment was good enough for the people of 1789 - it is good enough for our people. There has been no change whatsoever between those people and our people. We are made of the same thing. What has changed is culture, ideas, technology and just about everything else which is used as an excuse to ban guns, but which is entirely irrelevant to the basic human right to bear arms in defense of themselves and their liberties. The idea that you have a right to have a gun to defend your freedom doesn't change due to crime rates or stats, it doesn't change due to political movements. It is universal. So long as humans exist, there will always be a conflict between that of the individual, and that of the collective. The collective being represented by the government or the state or the authority. There will always be those who want to impose their will on you. Whether it be to impose their language, religion, culture or to extract taxes, tribute or services - it doesn't matter. The fact remains that the concept of tyranny is not obsolete or extinct. Therefore, a means by which to deter it or fight it must always exist. All gun control, ALL OF IT, is designed to limit the ability of the people to deter or defend from the demands of the tyrant.
This bill is designed to further censor children from the gun culture. These attacks have been made in the hunting world to great success. Every little bit they can chip away makes a difference. People are deterred from buying a gun when they learn they have to wait a year for it, or have to fill out a bunch of PITA forms. They avoid going to the range when the closest one is 65 miles away because of so many anti-gun local laws and regulations forcing ranges out into the wilderness. Firearms laws are really bad when it comes to under 18. The access for minors is extremely limited. They have also created incredible liabilities for adults to further deter the teaching of our youth about the RKBA in practice.
The tyranny is at an all time high. The reason such tyrannical policy is permitted is because most of the population is ignorant of our history. Not too long ago - high schools had shooting teams. Kids were trusted to go shooting. Guns were everywhere, easy to get and most people had interaction with them at some point in time. It wasn't a big deal to sell a gun at a department store. Ammo at the hardware store. Kids blasting tin cans with .22's wasn't para-military training or negligent parenting.
One very disgusting aspect of it is, how it divides us and divides the family unit. If children are banned from gun shows - then when you go, you go alone. The children then are no longer "with you" on this issue. They have hijacked the minds of your kids. While they aren't turning them into anti-gunners, they are slowly forcing your children to be more and more neutral on guns through exclusion in the shooting sports. Imagine a ban on children at ranges? Now you would need property to shoot on - something most people don't have as most areas do not permit it. What is happening is, they are undermining your ability to instill the values and culture you choose to in your child.
It is countless times more difficult to get into shooting as an adult, after the public education system and its widespread anti-gun propaganda has worked its course. There are exceptions, like myself. But the majority - if not introduced to shooting at some point before 18 years old, will likely never get into it. This is why our modern generations are completely firearm ignorant, emasculated and actually anti-gun from the bias thrown at them for 13 years.
Most of my peers are anti-gun, despite never sitting down and analyzing both sides of it to make a decision. It is the default position. They are a product of the system.
As for you, you become more isolated - a loner. Women are bombarded by anti-gun propaganda and bias in school and throughout their lives. More women are anti-gun than men. And it has nothing to do with the difference in sexes or the difference in psychology of men vs. women.
Adult (largely male) gun owners become more and more of a pariah. They've already succeeded to some degree. Gun shows and gun ranges are largely just men. Why is that? There isn't a single guy there that wouldn't love for his family to enjoy the sport that he does. Why is it that when a man loves tennis or golf or bowling or whatever it may be, there is always family acceptance and presence? Assuming they want to. Such a thing in the firearm world does not exist in the amount or percentage that it does in other sports. It is the laws, it is bias it is the propaganda. They are succeeding at turning your family away from shooting as much as possible. They are making it as hard as possible for you to get your family into shooting.
Some of you might say "what they hell are you talking about DTOM, my whole family shoots AR-15 action matches monthly and my wife has more guns than me" ...yes. For many of those here, that is true. But for the majority of America, what I have described is true. We tend to lose track of reality in the gun culture. It is easy to do so. We are much more of a minority than we think. We like to use numbers like "70,000,000" gun owners, but these are cheap rhetorical tools. They do not reflect the reality of the gun culture in America.
This bill is largely irrelevant. What matters here is a lesson. A lesson to the many thousands of gun owners who actually believe in some "mild" forms of gun control, like child locks or NICS. Most of what the NRA often supports.
Doing such a thing is submitting to the will, desire and goals of the very people who believe in and try to pass bills like this "no kids at gun shows" bill.
It is obvious that this bill is so absolutely, astronomically absurd on every conceivable level that one should clearly understand that there is NO limit to what the gun grabbers demand.
Even after every single firearm is banned and confiscated, rest assured, they will not stop. They will go after archery, airguns, and even swords. Yes. Swords.
As a result of their ultimate goals, you can see their mindset clearly. It is this same disturbing and sick mindset that has justified and created most if not all of the "mild" or "common sense" gun control measures that literally a huge majority of gun owners agree with. Even many die hard RKBA supporters. If you thought that NICS was ok, you're wrong. You fell in with those who believe in bills like the one this thread was made to discuss.
There is no "common sense" middle ground. All gun control is evil and unconstitutional. If the plain old Second Amendment was good enough for the people of 1789 - it is good enough for our people. There has been no change whatsoever between those people and our people. We are made of the same thing. What has changed is culture, ideas, technology and just about everything else which is used as an excuse to ban guns, but which is entirely irrelevant to the basic human right to bear arms in defense of themselves and their liberties. The idea that you have a right to have a gun to defend your freedom doesn't change due to crime rates or stats, it doesn't change due to political movements. It is universal. So long as humans exist, there will always be a conflict between that of the individual, and that of the collective. The collective being represented by the government or the state or the authority. There will always be those who want to impose their will on you. Whether it be to impose their language, religion, culture or to extract taxes, tribute or services - it doesn't matter. The fact remains that the concept of tyranny is not obsolete or extinct. Therefore, a means by which to deter it or fight it must always exist. All gun control, ALL OF IT, is designed to limit the ability of the people to deter or defend from the demands of the tyrant.
This bill is designed to further censor children from the gun culture. These attacks have been made in the hunting world to great success. Every little bit they can chip away makes a difference. People are deterred from buying a gun when they learn they have to wait a year for it, or have to fill out a bunch of PITA forms. They avoid going to the range when the closest one is 65 miles away because of so many anti-gun local laws and regulations forcing ranges out into the wilderness. Firearms laws are really bad when it comes to under 18. The access for minors is extremely limited. They have also created incredible liabilities for adults to further deter the teaching of our youth about the RKBA in practice.
The tyranny is at an all time high. The reason such tyrannical policy is permitted is because most of the population is ignorant of our history. Not too long ago - high schools had shooting teams. Kids were trusted to go shooting. Guns were everywhere, easy to get and most people had interaction with them at some point in time. It wasn't a big deal to sell a gun at a department store. Ammo at the hardware store. Kids blasting tin cans with .22's wasn't para-military training or negligent parenting.
One very disgusting aspect of it is, how it divides us and divides the family unit. If children are banned from gun shows - then when you go, you go alone. The children then are no longer "with you" on this issue. They have hijacked the minds of your kids. While they aren't turning them into anti-gunners, they are slowly forcing your children to be more and more neutral on guns through exclusion in the shooting sports. Imagine a ban on children at ranges? Now you would need property to shoot on - something most people don't have as most areas do not permit it. What is happening is, they are undermining your ability to instill the values and culture you choose to in your child.
It is countless times more difficult to get into shooting as an adult, after the public education system and its widespread anti-gun propaganda has worked its course. There are exceptions, like myself. But the majority - if not introduced to shooting at some point before 18 years old, will likely never get into it. This is why our modern generations are completely firearm ignorant, emasculated and actually anti-gun from the bias thrown at them for 13 years.
Most of my peers are anti-gun, despite never sitting down and analyzing both sides of it to make a decision. It is the default position. They are a product of the system.
As for you, you become more isolated - a loner. Women are bombarded by anti-gun propaganda and bias in school and throughout their lives. More women are anti-gun than men. And it has nothing to do with the difference in sexes or the difference in psychology of men vs. women.
Adult (largely male) gun owners become more and more of a pariah. They've already succeeded to some degree. Gun shows and gun ranges are largely just men. Why is that? There isn't a single guy there that wouldn't love for his family to enjoy the sport that he does. Why is it that when a man loves tennis or golf or bowling or whatever it may be, there is always family acceptance and presence? Assuming they want to. Such a thing in the firearm world does not exist in the amount or percentage that it does in other sports. It is the laws, it is bias it is the propaganda. They are succeeding at turning your family away from shooting as much as possible. They are making it as hard as possible for you to get your family into shooting.
Some of you might say "what they hell are you talking about DTOM, my whole family shoots AR-15 action matches monthly and my wife has more guns than me" ...yes. For many of those here, that is true. But for the majority of America, what I have described is true. We tend to lose track of reality in the gun culture. It is easy to do so. We are much more of a minority than we think. We like to use numbers like "70,000,000" gun owners, but these are cheap rhetorical tools. They do not reflect the reality of the gun culture in America.
nope, you are exactly right--it is a concerted effort on the parts of these people and many in the government. I have told the story before, but when chaperoning an 8th grade trip we were going to board the USS Constitution at one point, and were told we had to take everything metal out of our pockets to place in little bins while were in there, and also had to remove watches, belt's, etc that might be metal, and if we had a POCKET KNIFE, we had to let them know RIGHT NOW. Well, I had a pocket knife which I had already put in my little box with my belt and watch and spare change, raised my hand, they practically sent the naval swat team at me and very sternly told me that I could either leave the area immediately, or turn the knife into them to be destroyed. Very disapproving looks and manner. Thankfully there were lots of other chaperones and one of them immediately said she'd be happy to watch my kids as well as hers, and I said see you later I'll take my knife thank you very much, the irony of being banned from the Constitution, a symbol of out nation's freedom, not escaping me. What SHOCKED me the most was that not a SINGLE kid there had a pocket knife. When I was in school, 2/3 of the males at least would have had a pocket knife I would bet. They have already beaten that out of kids by scaring them with draconian punishments and criminal records for bringing a "weapon" to school. The situation with guns has become much the same. We went from having a school rifle team when I was in school to suggestions that you are an unfit parent for having guns in your HOME now. I recently had a teacher (who is going for her administrative degree) have a FIT because I toyed with the idea of showing Casablanca is my one cultural literacy sort of class I started, because "doesn't he SMOKE throughout that movie!?!" *absolute horror on her face*--what have we come to in this country? Reminds me more of Fahrenheit 451 all the time...
oh, and
that is also EXACTLY what will happen, and then of course Dick's will announce that it will no longer carry guns or ammo because it doesn't want to lose the business from families that would result
oh, and
that is also EXACTLY what will happen, and then of course Dick's will announce that it will no longer carry guns or ammo because it doesn't want to lose the business from families that would result
Dorryn
Member
NYC drags the rest of the state down. Welcome to the nanny state! Still, its better than MA, CA, HI, NJ....
ConstitutionCowboy
member
I can't bear to read any of this BS. This is indoctrination of our youth in preparation for the police state. It's Zero tolerance carried to the next logical step. It's disenfranchisement of the right to self defense, the right to hunt and provide for yourself, and the right to engage in a long time honored and cherished sport activity. It's poisoning the minds of our youth to regard firearms as something evil, or distasteful, or as a decadence of the unwashed past.
The wake-up call of 09/11/2001 means nothing to these politicians, for it has gone by unheeded. It's time to kick these sleepy dunderheads out of bed. Run against them. It's a nice bed. Just don't forget that that bed is only for resting between the times you must get up and preserve, protect, and defend the Constitution.
This country would be so much more prosperous, peaceful, and safer if those in office would honor their oath. Just remember that when you get in.
Woody
The wake-up call of 09/11/2001 means nothing to these politicians, for it has gone by unheeded. It's time to kick these sleepy dunderheads out of bed. Run against them. It's a nice bed. Just don't forget that that bed is only for resting between the times you must get up and preserve, protect, and defend the Constitution.
This country would be so much more prosperous, peaceful, and safer if those in office would honor their oath. Just remember that when you get in.
Woody
Rugerman99
Member
F**** I think its time I get out of NY. Think back to when you were kids I bet many of you have fond memories of going to gun shows with your dad I know I do. I'm sick of seeing children treated as subhuman with absolutely no rights and then in turn every thing the politicians do nowadays is always "for the children".
Its also a way of de-gunning the next generation
The earlier a child has access to firearms the more likely they are to see them as 'normal ever day' objects. So it must mean that if you think up ways to keep kids away from firearms until they are adults they will see firearms in a much different light and presumably will be less likely to be 'pro-gun' because it is difficult to be 'pro' anything that one has no experience of.
Whilst these people do everything to keep children out of gun shows, you can bet that the same people will allow children to watch violent films further pressing home the idea that guns 'only have bad purposes etc'
We have seen similar things happen here in the UK to othe extent that the younger generations only come into contact through the mis-use of firearms in general.
The earlier a child has access to firearms the more likely they are to see them as 'normal ever day' objects. So it must mean that if you think up ways to keep kids away from firearms until they are adults they will see firearms in a much different light and presumably will be less likely to be 'pro-gun' because it is difficult to be 'pro' anything that one has no experience of.
Whilst these people do everything to keep children out of gun shows, you can bet that the same people will allow children to watch violent films further pressing home the idea that guns 'only have bad purposes etc'
We have seen similar things happen here in the UK to othe extent that the younger generations only come into contact through the mis-use of firearms in general.
ArmedBear said:
Not for long. Spitzer and friends are trying to pass a law which would make it a felony to let a minor have access to video games with guns. Books, movies, and pictures probably aren't far behind.
Either way, yea, their push for indoctrination knows no limits..
Beatnik
Member
My 9 month old daughter has already been to two. Here's the proof that NICS checks are ridiculous: they take longer than it takes to feed a 6oz bottle to a baby.
The big exposure to guns as a teen for me was Scouts. When I think about all the just-plain-wrong stuff I did and got exposed to through school, where there were no guns, as opposed to all the clean livin' I did in Scouts, well, it seems obvious that the state isn't quite getting its point across.
I don't have a problem with prohibiting unsupervised minors from attending anything, but would rather the gun show sponsors do it as a matter of good sense without having the heavy hand of government mandate it. I suspect a lot of gun shows already have such a policy.
K
K
The gunshow my club holds every year has many "kids" that are there accompanied by adults . Never seem to have any problems and the kids seem to know more about guns than a good amount of adults I have met . The kids are usually there looking for a new hunting rifle or accessory for the one they own as well as ammo to practice/hunt with . Maybe it's the "gun culture' in my area that makes the kids more respectful and knowledgeable , or maybe it's the fact that the majority of the parents actually teach their kids and are involved with them concerning guns . I don't know . But we don't seem to have the little loose "bas%%%ds " that other shows in other states have had . I really like the fact that parents bring their kids . It helps them to understand it's 'normal" to own and want guns and gun accessories .
Autolycus
Member
Do you have a link to the bill? How about a website that talks about it? I am interested in learning more about this.
ConstitutionCowboy
member
I'd be takin' my kids to gun shows in neighboring states if such a law were to pass in my state(never happen in Oklahoma, though).
Woody
"It is contended, that this article of the code, is in violation of the constitution of the United States, and of this state. The clause in the constitution of the United States, that it is said to be in violation of, is the 2d article of the amendments: "A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed." O. & W. Dig. 7. The clause in the constitution of this state, which it is said to violate, is the 13th section of the bill of rights: "Every citizen shall have the right to keep and bear arms, in the lawful defense of himself or the state." O. & W. Dig. 14.
The object of the clause first cited, has reference to the perpetuation of free government, and is based on the idea, that the people cannot be effectually oppressed and enslaved, who are not first disarmed. The clause cited in our bill of rights, has the same broad object in relation to the government, and in addition thereto, secures a personal right to the citizen. The right of a citizen to bear arms, in the lawful defense of himself or the state, is absolute. He does not derive it from the state government, but directly from the sovereign convention of the people that framed the state government. It is one of the "high powers" delegated directly to the citizen, and "is excepted out of the general powers of government." A law cannot be passed (p.402)to infringe upon or impair it, because it is above the law, and independent of the law-making power." - Texas Supreme Court Decision, Cockrum vs State of Texas, ---- 1859
Seems some of the states did consider the 2A binding upon the states. Some still do.
Woody
"It is contended, that this article of the code, is in violation of the constitution of the United States, and of this state. The clause in the constitution of the United States, that it is said to be in violation of, is the 2d article of the amendments: "A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed." O. & W. Dig. 7. The clause in the constitution of this state, which it is said to violate, is the 13th section of the bill of rights: "Every citizen shall have the right to keep and bear arms, in the lawful defense of himself or the state." O. & W. Dig. 14.
The object of the clause first cited, has reference to the perpetuation of free government, and is based on the idea, that the people cannot be effectually oppressed and enslaved, who are not first disarmed. The clause cited in our bill of rights, has the same broad object in relation to the government, and in addition thereto, secures a personal right to the citizen. The right of a citizen to bear arms, in the lawful defense of himself or the state, is absolute. He does not derive it from the state government, but directly from the sovereign convention of the people that framed the state government. It is one of the "high powers" delegated directly to the citizen, and "is excepted out of the general powers of government." A law cannot be passed (p.402)to infringe upon or impair it, because it is above the law, and independent of the law-making power." - Texas Supreme Court Decision, Cockrum vs State of Texas, ---- 1859
Seems some of the states did consider the 2A binding upon the states. Some still do.
- Status