NY Times Editorial

[Neo-Luddite]

Just for fun see how many half-truths, distortions and lies this editorial includes; more challenging than doing the 'blank' crossword puzzle!



Editorial
How Many More Warnings?
Published: February 11, 2008


Even with families victimized in the Virginia Tech massacre looking on, lawmakers in Virginia lined up like clay pigeons for the gun lobby last month to block legislation that would have closed the state’s notorious gun-show loophole. That means that anyone — ex-felons and deranged citizens included — can continue to buy firearms at laissez-faire “sportsmen” shows.

Go to The Board » The life-saving bill was supported by frontline police organizations, Gov. Tim Kaine and a majority of Virginians, still mourning the deadliest campus shooting in American history. That didn’t stop opponents from claiming that the problem had already been solved. It hasn’t.

In the wake of the massacre, Congress was finally shamed into passing legislation intended to improve national record-keeping and make it harder for people with a criminal history or a history of dangerous mental illness — like the Virginia Tech gunman — to purchase firearms from licensed gun dealers. Threat closed? No.

The lethal truth is that even if the troubled student had been denied by licensed dealers, he could have easily turned to the many unlicensed peddlers at weekend open-air shows, where gun worship trumps public safety, to buy his high-tech arsenal and ammunition. In one of America’s many earlier warnings, the killers responsible for the Columbine High School massacre did their shopping at Colorado gun shows.

The Virginia Legislature’s failure mocks all of the high-minded promises of closure uttered in the blood and grief after the tragedy. It again underlines the need for federal legislation to close gun-show loopholes. A bipartisan bill is already awaiting action, but the gun lobby never rests. The presidential candidates should show that they have more grit than Virginia’s lawmakers and demand an end to unlicensed gun shows, and demand that Congress show courage and sense of its own.


http://www.nytimes.com/2008/02/11/opinion/11mon3.html?scp=1&sq=gun&st=nyt

 

[Neo-Luddite]

I'll start: In one of America’s many earlier warnings, the killers responsible for the Columbine High School massacre did their shopping at Colorado gun shows.

No, a 'straw purchaser' bought the weapons and unlawfully transfered them - thus beginning a string of felonies that culminated in the attacks; and what punishment did she receive?

(In addition, a pistol was unlawfully acquired via an illegal private sale).

 

[highorder]

That means that anyone — ex-felons and deranged citizens included — can continue to buy firearms at laissez-faire “sportsmen” shows.

how can they print that? its just NOT TRUE. How are we to win the battle when our side is the only one that abides by any code of conduct?

 

[Prince Yamato]

his high-tech arsenal and ammunition.

A Glock 19 and Walther P22 are not hi-tech nor do 2 pistols constitute an arsenal. I'm pretty sure the ammo was standard winchester or something similar. Same style of bullets used over 100 years ago.

 

[Mr White]

That means that anyone — ex-felons and deranged citizens included — can continue to buy firearms at laissez-faire “sportsmen” shows.

how can they print that? its just NOT TRUE. How are we to win the battle when our side is the only one that abides by any code of conduct?

But technically, it is true. I can take any long gun I own to a show and sell it to anyone who wants to buy it, with no b/g check. I've sold several guns at gun shows, but never to anyone who looked shady.

For private sales, the only b/g check is the sellers first impression judgement of the buyer. "Does he look like a criminal?" And that's assuming that the seller even cares to ask that question. How many guns are sold to the first guy who comes along with enough $$$, no matter what he looks like?

I don't advocate stopping private sales, but I'm just saying that their statement is not a complete lie

 

[highorder]

I've sold several guns at gun shows, but never to anyone who looked shady.

thats the kicker.

its true is the same way that "we need a law that stops people from crossing the median on the highway and killing buses full of nuns" is true.

anyone can do anything, its up to your conscience to guide your actions.

 

[jlday70]

gun-show loophole

Doesn't exist FFL Dealers still use the NICS at gun shows.

intended to improve national record-keeping and make it harder for people with a criminal history or a history of dangerous mental illness — like the Virginia Tech gunman

Improve national record keeping or take the rights away from thousands who don't have a history?

In one of America’s many earlier warnings, the killers responsible for the Columbine High School massacre did their shopping at Colorado gun shows.

HUH?? Last time I checked they stole the guns from their family members(Which is a crime already)

The presidential candidates should show that they have more grit than Virginia’s lawmakers and demand an end to unlicensed gun shows, and demand that Congress show courage and sense of its own.

Presidential candidates should show that they have more brains and realize that more laws aren't going to fix it enforcing the laws we have will help it.

 

[Thernlund]

You'll notice that there's no byline on that article. Hmmm.


-T.

 

[Neo-Luddite]

You'll notice that there's no byline on that article. Hmmm.

True enough--so it's backed only by the nation's defacto paper of record and its fine reputation.

If I were paper training a puppy I wouldn't suffer him to poop on a copy of the thing for fear he might not think that I cared about the quality of his training and care.

 

[everallm]

Emailed the editor, linked to the Times's own published guidelines on factuality, probity etc.

Doubt there will be a retraction but got to keep 'em on their toes...

Dear Editor,


I read the editorial, "How Many More Warnings?" published: February 11, 2008, expecting something about the current political process, the sub-prime fiasco, terrorism or some other relevant piece.


What I read unfortunately bore little of news or factual opinion and more sensationalism, polemic and factual inaccuracy.


Based upon the Times own published ethical journalism guidelines as well as the Newsroom Integrity Statements I feel the issue needs to be dramatically revised if not removed in entirety.

The guidelines specifically state the necessity of accuracy, lack of bias, factual probity, integrity, impartiality and neutrality. I am afraid even the most cursory review shows a distinct lack of these founding principles


The specific points of concern, include but are not limited to

In one of America’s many earlier warnings, the killers responsible for the Columbine High School massacre did their shopping at Colorado gun shows


This is completely inaccurate without basis in truth or fact, the weapons were not purchased at any gun show, either by the perpetrators or those they stole the weapons from.


The lethal truth is that even if the troubled student (Cho) had been denied by licensed dealers, he could have easily turned to the many unlicensed peddlers at weekend open-air shows, where gun worship trumps public safety, to buy his high-tech arsenal and ammunition.


Apart from the, at best strained tone, the sentence is riddled with innaccuracies.


Any FFL (Federal Firearm Licence) dealer is obliged, even at a "gun show" to run a NICS background check on purchases.


Semi-automatic pistols have been manufactured for over 100 years, hardly high tech and the ammunition used is hardly different from any other going back 150 years.



The man in question purchased his weapons legally, there was no intent or action on his part to attend any "gun show" so to castigate that for actions that did not occur is akin to the line "When did you stop beating you wife". Irrelevant, unlinked and inappropriate.


Finally there is no such thing as an unlicensed gun show, all such undertaking are regulated, licenced, reviewed by local ordinance etc.


I trust the Times will take this letter as what it is, a concern and not an attack.


Yours

XXXXXXXX

 

[pbearperry]

I went to a gun show 2 weeks ago and couldn't find one loop hole to buy.Where are all these loopholes I keep hearing about?

 

[NG VI]

good letter Everall, I'd like to hear their response, if they have one.

 

[BobbyQuickdraw]

This author spreading misinformation is dangerous - BAN THE PRINTING PRESS. OUTLAW WORDS.