Gun Crazy...Editorial from the NYT

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The Sheriff

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March 1, 2008
Editorial NYT
Gun Crazy
The Valentine’s Day massacre at Northern Illinois University, like the killings at places such as Columbine High School and Virginia Tech, has evoked expressions of horror and sympathy and familiar questions about the killer’s motives and mental health. Atrocities like these make Americans feel angry and perhaps helpless.

Our political leaders are not helpless. They could match public shock with prompt, concerted and effective action to make mass shootings a less frequent fact of American life. But neither party’s leaders have shown any sign of stepping up their responsibilities. The latest campus carnage barely caused a ripple in presidential politics, where conventional wisdom dictates against actively advocating more stringent gun control laws.

No single measure or combination of measures can ensure that deranged individuals are prevented in every instance from shooting up a crowded classroom or shopping mall. But neither the absence of a perfect solution nor opposition from the powerful gun lobby is an excuse to do nothing — not when some 30 people are killed with guns every day in America. The rampage at the Northern Illinois campus was at least the sixth multiple murder in this country in just the first two weeks of February.

In a rare outbreak of reason on the subject of guns at the end of last year, Congress approved a measure worked out with the National Rifle Association to provide financial incentives for states and localities to share pertinent mental health records with the national database used to screen prospective gun buyers. But there are other practical steps the nation can take that would make it more difficult for dangerous people to obtain deadly firepower.

A short, smart public safety agenda would include:

¶ Requiring background checks for every gun purchase. That means closing the egregious loophole that permits unlicensed dealers to sell firearms at gun shows without conducting any background check.

¶ Limiting purchases to one gun a month in order to defeat traffickers who use straw purchasers to buy weapons in bulk and then resell them on the street.

¶ Once again banning the sale of military-style assault weapons and high-capacity ammunition magazines like those used by the Virginia Tech and Northern Illinois University killers. These magazines would have been outlawed under the Federal Assault Weapons Ban, but President Bush and the Republican Congress recklessly let it expire in 2004 to please the gun lobby.

Along with health care, trade agreements and the war in Iraq, proposals to reduce the scourge of guns warrant open discussion and debate during the remaining months of the presidential campaign. Both Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama favor stronger gun control, though it may be hard to tell from their campaign Web sites or speeches, which generally avoid the issue.

To his credit, John McCain, the likely Republican nominee, starred in television ads supporting state ballot initiatives in Oregon and Colorado to close the gun show loophole. Lately, though, he signed onto a Congressional brief urging the Supreme Court to use a case it is hearing this month to set a legal standard that could foreclose other needed gun restrictions that pose no real threat to the right to bear arms.

The Democrats should not be afraid to challenge Mr. McCain — or gun zealots’ wacky idea that the solution to campus mayhem is to arm teachers and students.

:fire:
 
They could at least change the wording of those Brady talking points, it might give the appearance of original thought. A little effort in the future, please, and mind the sharp end of the pencil; its not safe.
 
Another reason why I quit reading the New York Times many years ago. I find Libertypost.org a much better source of news.
 
1. At VT and at NIU the killers passed the NYT's beloved background checks. How about background checks for those that wish to buy a newspaper? How about submitting Little Pinch to a background check and see what comes up? How about releasing Little Pinch's SAT scores.

2. The killers at VT and NIU bought their firearms far in advance of their murders. How about limiting newspapers to one a month?

3. What "military-style assault weapons" at VT and NIU? The Clinton ban did no such thing. The weapons they whimper about were still sold minus cosmetic features.

If you are shooting unarmed fish in a barrel, why does it matter how often you reload your weapon?

A moronic piece written by people who have no idea what they are talking about. I demand licensing and registration of all newspaper reporters and editorial writers. It's for the children.
 
So I figure that this is just as good a time as any to ask the following question that's been bugging me since the afternoon. I know it's a thread jack, but these threads are always non-productive anyway, and usually everyone is in the "dispel the myths" mode, so I figure that it would be a good place to ask my question.

Today I went over to my parents' house for lunch, and the discussion of gun control was brought up. My father is flagrantly anti-guns, and has repeatedly said that guns are bad, no one should ever own a gun in a modern society, and that "we need to ban the damn things". My mom used to be anti, but I've been working on her, and she's now on the fence about the whole issue. I still haven't told them that I own any guns yet, just because I know it would do nothing aside from upset them, since my dad repeatedly says that owning a gun makes you 10 times more likely to get shot by a gun, or something like that.

Anyway, today I asked my mom if she had seen the story on the news where a man shot and killed a 1/2 burglars who came into their home, and then hid with his daughter in the bathroom and called 911. She said that she had seen it, and started asking me some questions about guns and the laws (since she's been afraid of home invasions, and realizes the police arrive in ~half an hour out where they live), and I was happily answering them for her, and she was clearly much more open to the idea of safe firearms ownership. Then my dad hears what I was talking about, walks back into the room with a newspaper story of a 5-year old that killed his 3 year old brother with the parent's handgun, and then went off about how that's what will happen when you own a gun - you'll be killed with it. Then he started rambling on about how statistics clearly prove that owning a gun is dangerous, and that I should be more mature in what I say, since the AMA says it's dangerous, and therefore I should be in line with the AMA since I'm a medical student, instead of holding views that "will put my future patients at risk of being killed".

I know it's gotta be BS that guns are more likely to kill their owners in an accident than to be used to defend ones-self, or just not see any violent usage at all. I can't imagine that gun owners are that irresponsible. Does anyone have some good, non-Brady, non-NRA statistics on this point? My dad pounds this point continuously, and I know it's what the AMA based its recommendations of discouraging patients from owning firearms, and it really bugs me.
 
You're a walking statistic. Say "well I've owned X amount of guns for X amount of time, and I've never seen one fire on its own, or shoot at me. They've never been fired anywhere but the range, either intentionally or accidentally." Thats a statistic he can't refute.
 
hk

Do you know what study he is referring to?, no doubt it is the kellerman study.
kellerman got millions of dollars from anti gun sources.
google "kellerman study debunked"
for an eyeful.

Arming America (A book like the kellerman study) lost its bancroft award for lying too.

People like your dad probably won't be convinced with facts and reason, it is a fear based psychological disorder. (fear of weapons)

Facts and reason do not alter crazy peoples perceptions, facts and reason make them even angrier.

Your dad is probably more upset about you growing and challenging his belief system then other things and it manifest as an irrational fear of weapons.

I wouldn't bother arguing with him, you have your beliefs and he has his, let him live in peace and don't sweat the small stuff.

My dad has been dead a long time I wished we had spent more time hanging out rather then arguing.
 
"Once again banning the sale of military-style assault weapons and high-capacity ammunition magazines like those used by the Virginia Tech and Northern Illinois University killers. These magazines would have been outlawed under the Federal Assault Weapons Ban, but President Bush and the Republican Congress recklessly let it expire in 2004 to please the gun lobby."

Word, folks. If you were ever planning to buy another semi auto "assault rifle/pistol" or hicap mag, do it soon! A much worse AWB is in our future after the POTUS election, and probably with no sunset provision, meaning cowardly pols will have to actually vote to overturn it. (They won't.)
 
No single measure or combination of measures can ensure that deranged individuals are prevented in every instance from shooting up a crowded classroom or shopping mall.

One single measure would allow those in the crowded school or shopping mall to have a decent chance of defending themselves.
 
Hmm, Valentine's Day Massacre, Illinois, anyone else see a trend here? I believe the answer is to ban Valentine's Day in that state, then we'd see a stop to the wanton violence.
 
"Word, folks. If you were ever planning to buy another semi auto "assault rifle/pistol" or hicap mag, do it soon! A much worse AWB is in our future after the POTUS election, and probably with no sunset provision, meaning cowardly pols will have to actually vote to overturn it. (They won't.)"
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This may be true, or then gain, maybe not. Politicians may be evil, but they're usually not stupid. The Dems who took control of Congress back were largely not anti-gun and won by small margins. The reason you don't hear Hitlery and Yomama belching about gun control is they realize how politically dangerous it is to arouse the Gunnies. The political upheaval of 2000 was largely due to their having enraged us- even Billy the Lecher admitted it cost the Dems at least 20 seats. I could be just whistling past the graveyard, but I don't think they want to do anything that will p*ss us off that bad again. Even in Deep Blue WA the Speaker of the House lost to an upstart because he supported the AWB. Ask Dave Roberti about how long we remember such things. We have long memories, and the politicos know it. Besides, there are plenty of other issues for them to beat their chests and rend their garments over that won't get us to vote against them regardless of their views on anything else.
 
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