NYC Subway shooter's firearm trace

[SimonRL]

I think we need to define terms. Microfilm is most definitely NOT a digital medium. It’s 100% analog, and it is not searchable like a database. Even the article you linked says that. They can’t just type in a serial number on a computer. Someone has to scroll through rolls of microfilm until they find an image of the 4473. It’s simply not to correct to say the records are digitized.



There isn’t a prosecutor or investigator on the planet would prefer to have LESS evidence to use against a suspect.

You’re splitting hairs, but you’re right.

 

[herrwalther]

You’re right, they are kept in shipping. containers by the millions, where they are slowly but inevitably digitized - to microfilm.

Did you ever do microfilm based research? Basically, hundreds of pages of documents can be compressed into a reel container that is about 3-4 inches long. They are seen on a viewer which is basically a magnified overhead projector. It is the pre-digital way to compress page documents to a smaller format without 1s and 0s. Yes it is easier to scroll through pages of documents quickly but there is no "ctrl + F" feature.

 

[SimonRL]

I

Did you ever do microfilm based research? Basically, hundreds of pages of documents can be compressed into a reel container that is about 3-4 inches long. They are seen on a viewer which is basically a magnified overhead projector. It is the pre-digital way to compress page documents to a smaller format without 1s and 0s. Yes it is easier to scroll through pages of documents quickly but there is no "ctrl + F" feature.

Yep, been around long enough to have dealt with microfilm.

 

[guyfromohio]

What's the purpose of stating that he bought the gun in Columbus if it's a legal purchase? It makes my paranoia radar go wild in thinking they're going to make more out of this purchase than what it is.

I’m sure it’s being highlighted because “see….he bought it in one of those easy states….not in New York or PA”.

 

[guyfromohio]

The surprising thing I noticed about this incident is the perp using a 9mm, extended magazine, firing 33 shots or more, INSIDE A CROWDED SUBWAY CAR where NONE of his targets can escape and NO ONE DIED. Only about half the shots even wounded any one.

What does this say to the "quick second shot", "spray and pray", "MODERN 9mm is just as good as" and "9mm is more accurate", "accuracy by volume" crowds? Oh yeah, and he was STOPPED when his gun jammed. Was that a Glock Perfection moment?

If you’re a good shot with six, you don’t become a bad shot with 15. That’s the “spray and pray” fallacy. I don’t suddenly suck when I put down my 1911 and pick up my Glock.

 

[hso]

I advise everyone to reread https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...ers-firearm-trace.904504/page-2#post-12270091

Eyewitness says gun held low. Wounds are almost all below the waist (I noticed that in the pictures of the victims from the subway). Aftermarket 33 rnd mags are notorious for causing misfeeds (thank heavens).

If there were "4 owners" then it is possible that the handgun was sold or pawned to FFLs in a couple of those steps and the other individuals might have recorded/remembered who they sold it to. Most people only sell or trade guns to people they know so remembering that "Bob at work" bought the gun or "Aunt Bessie was given" the gun before it went to a shop isn't that far fetched.

 

[lemaymiami]

Must take exception to post #7... regarding stolen weapon recoveries... The same message that tells the cop on the street that a firearm has a "stolen" message - also has right on it the info on what agency reported it stolen, where, and when (stolen messages in the "system" are forever since guns have a long long lifespan). Where things get sticky and often go astray is when the original victim or reporter subsequently moves away - with no forwarding address and no info provided to the originating agency... or when the original agency that filed the stolen report falls down in its responsibility to notify the victim of the recovery...

It's a pretty darned good system - but the human factor on each side of the equation is, as always... the limiting factor. Remember that only the originating agency is responsible for notifying the victim - and then they're also the outfit that's required to cancel the "stolen" message in the system...

In my era, when I was the guy responsible for holding recovered weapons and actually notifying the victim or reporter of a recovery the system I'm referring to was NCIC... Lord only knows if it still has the same name since I left police work more than 26 years ago now.

 

[kcofohio]

Did you ever do microfilm based research? Basically, hundreds of pages of documents can be compressed into a reel container that is about 3-4 inches long. They are seen on a viewer which is basically a magnified overhead projector. It is the pre-digital way to compress page documents to a smaller format without 1s and 0s. Yes it is easier to scroll through pages of documents quickly but there is no "ctrl + F" feature.

And there is no search mode.
When I was younger, my eyes could stand the strain. Now, not so much.

 

[davethedog]

An ATF agent told me recently that a normal trace such as a recovered stolen firearm submitted by a law enforcement agency takes about 2-3 weeks. In a high profile incident such as this or a murder case, the trace is placed in the high priority category and they can trace it in 24 hours like this one.

 

[Carl N. Brown]

Pawnshops in my neck of the woods have to have have an FFL to handle firearms.
And call in guns they receive in pawn to the PD for NCIC stolen property check.
If you redeem a pawned gun, you have to pass a NICS background check to receive it.

 

[Brutus54]

I had a BIL who had a .25cal Raven he bought used years ago. His son was a felon who had to live with him after being released from prison so I took his guns and put them on my and my wife's permit. I was working 2nd shift and got a call from my wife who said her twin sister just got visited by the FBI asking about the Raven. Now to make things even more interesting her twin is married to my brother so the same last name and they asked her about the gun. She told them she didn't own the gun and they showed her her picture from my wife's permit. She explained that's her twin and where she lived.They left without telling her why they wanted to talk about the gun and drove 60 miles to our house. My wife called me at work and said the FBI is on their way over here and not sure why. Now they get here and ask if they can take the gun and my wife said talk to my husband I not sure where it is. Turns out my nephew moved out and I returned all my BIL guns back to him. They drove back there and finally got the gun they were after to test fire it. It was used in a murder before my BIL bought it and they solved a old case. My wife was the last to have it registered on a permit and not sure the amount of time that passed before my BIL bought it.

 

[N555]

The serial number on the frame is the only one that legally matters, but Glock puts matching serial numbers on the frame, the slide, and the barrel. It's like the VIN number of your car. The only one that legally matters is the VIN plate viewable through the windshield, but the VIN number is in multiple locations on the vehicle.

So I think N555's point was that if your goal was to obliterate the identity of the firearm, and assuming the firearm was all original, you would have to successfully destroy the serial number at all three locations.

If the glocks frame number is gone but they can still make our the number on the barrel they would run it, just to see where it leads.
But if I ever bought a factory made glock, first thing I would do is toss the factory barrel.

 

[Jim Watson]

if your goal was to obliterate the identity of the firearm, and assuming the firearm was all original, you would have to successfully destroy the serial number at all three locations.

A friend worked at the local pawn and gun. A customer brought in a S&W K38 to pawn. Friend noticed the butt serial number was gone, so he loaned the guy a few bucks on it and called the police and ATF. The guy had shown his current driver's license so he was easy to look up. My friend pointed out all the other places a Smith of that vintage was numbered, the thief had not filed them all and the gun was returned to the owner who had reported it stolen.
That was a long time ago. Nowadays the authorities might not be so accommodating on a gun missing the official serial number even if it were otherwise traceable.

 

[illinoisburt]

Nowadays the authorities might not be so accommodating on a gun missing the official serial number even if it were otherwise traceable

It is illegal to have a firearm with a defaced serial number, so if a stolen gun is recovered with a scratched out number can it still be returned to the owner?

 

[Jim Watson]

BATF has the authority to renumber such a gun. The few I have seen pictured had numbers off the BATF's list, not a restamp of the original, even where known.
I do not know if they are doing it now.

 

[davethedog]

Couldn't you just stamp the original number back on there somewhere?

 

[Jim Watson]

No.
Even the Army had a list of X numbers for use on guns whose original numbers were obliterated or faint.

 

[Frank Ettin]

Stay on topic please.