NYPD to Officers: No More Revolvers

[Speedo66]

When we transitioned to Glocks in the '90's, we had many holdouts. We had to buy our own weapons from our annual equipment allowance, and some wouldn't spend the money. We also had some weaker members of our agency who had trouble operating the slide and with the take down procedure. Then there were those who couldn't care less about what they carried.

I retired in '09, so I don't know how many still have revolvers, but in NYC the NYPD is the big dog and most of the other 25 or so city and state agencies that work in NYC and carry guns follow their lead. Based on that, I wouldn't be surprised if my old agency will also ban revolvers.

 

[1MoreFord]

From the article, "The move away from pistols is one of a sea of changes in the Police Department. Sgt. Thomas O. McLaughlin..."

I thought all handguns were "pistols".

Aren't revolvers and semi-auto handguns "pistols"?

I have heard the term "semi-automatic pistol" many times.

Weren't Western gunfighters often called "pistoleros"?

Weren't angry gentlemen of the 18th century settling their disagreements with single shot (non-revolver) "duelling pistols"?

As I understand it handgun is the proper all encompassing designation of a gun meant to be shot with 1 hand. Properly speaking pistol refers to a semi-auto or single shot. Revolver is the proper term for handguns with a rotating cylinder.

 

[Hertzer]

Wonder if it's not more a matter of somebody feeling that the revolver is just to antiquated a weapons system for a big cities modern police force. Of maybe some paper pusher fells the need to justify a paycheck.

 

[Officers'Wife]

Wonder if it's not more a matter of somebody feeling that the revolver is just to antiquated a weapons system for a big cities modern police force. Of maybe some paper pusher fells the need to justify a paycheck.

More likely a matter of getting a larger allocation to the budget to be able to buy the new weapons. Follow the money to find the truth.

 

[Hertzer]

Hmmm, that has an all to true ring to it as well.

 

[Deltaboy1984]

Some where Jim Cirillo shakes his head in unbelief!

 

[WYO]

The NYPD, a force of approx. 30,000, has ordered the last remaining 50 officers still carrying revolvers to transition over to semi autos, thus ending a longstanding tradition.

The chief of the firearms bureau has cited tactical use as the reason.

To me, that sounds like code for "Time to move along and retire."

 

[rodregier]

Jim Cirillo reportedly commented favorably on the G19 much later in his FLETC days.

 

[marksman13]

Pretty awful shooting from a trained professional.

 

[SharpDog]

yeah, NYPD keeps going round and round on that issue ...

Sorry, couldn't resist ...

If you didn't get it by now, please re-read the post

 

[Sistema1927]

Pretty awful shooting from a trained professional.

A fairly high percentage of police officers aren't "gun guys". If that it is true in gun friendly places in "fly over country", then guess how true it must be in NYC.

 

[Good Ol' Boy]

Pretty awful shooting from a trained professional.View attachment 792544

Ahhh give 'em a break, he's trying to sip tea and shoot at the same time.


Seriously though I was under the impression from the article that he's learning to shoot his new duty gun for the first time. Maybe he really truly hasn't spent any time with a semi before?

 

[RetiredUSNChief]

As I understand it handgun is the proper all encompassing designation of a gun meant to be shot with 1 hand. Properly speaking pistol refers to a semi-auto or single shot. Revolver is the proper term for handguns with a rotating cylinder.

Heh! "Properly speaking", the word "pistol" predates semi-automatic handguns by a number of centuries. It apparently entered the English lexicon in 1570 from the French "pistolet", itself twenty years older in use.

The point being that the word was most definately in use a rather long time before the advent of semi-auto handguns.

There HAVE been some attempts to technically define "pistol" as distinct from "revolver"...but that's not a commonly accepted distinction everywhere.

Anyway...that's the linguistic lesson of the day! Me? I go with the flow and pay attention to the context in which the word is used more than the word itself.

 

[Homerboy]

Pretty awful shooting from a trained professional.View attachment 792544

Looks okay to me. If that was a real person he’d be dead.

Anybody who hasn’t been in a real shooting doesn’t have an opinion on marksmanship while you’re being shot at. It’s quite different from shooting at paper. And getting into a shooting on a street with hundreds of people running back and forth is not the same as one in Mayberry.

And the retention on that Jay Pee swivel holster was probably fine. It’s a strip of leather on the inside that catches in the revolver cylinder. To draw the weapon, you shove your thumb between the cylinder and the strip and it unlocks it. If the strip gets loose, which took MANY years, you took it to a shoe repair shop and they re-stitched it back on. Good as new.

Of course, these are the same people with fantasies of taking down a shooter in a dark movie theater.

 

[marksman13]

Looks okay to me. If that was a real person he’d be dead.

Anybody who hasn’t been in a real shooting doesn’t have an opinion on marksmanship while you’re being shot at. It’s quite different from shooting at paper. And getting into a shooting on a street with hundreds of people running back and forth is not the same as one in Mayberry.

And the retention on that Jay Pee swivel holster was probably fine. It’s a strip of leather on the inside that catches in the revolver cylinder. To draw the weapon, you shove your thumb between the cylinder and the strip and it unlocks it. If the strip gets loose, which took MANY years, you took it to a shoe repair shop and they re-stitched it back on. Good as new.

Of course, these are the same people with fantasies of taking down a shooter in a dark movie theater.

That is piss poor shooting for someone whose job may require using a weapon to stop a threat. This dude is not being shot at and his shooting is not going to get better when he's being shot at. It's going to get even worse. I understand that he is getting used to a new pistol, but proper instruction would correct his grip and make his shooting better.

 

[4v50 Gary]

So ends an era in police equipment. There are still some agencies that allows its officers to carry revolvers but they are dwindling.

 

[Homerboy]

That is piss poor shooting for someone whose job may require using a weapon to stop a threat. This dude is not being shot at and his shooting is not going to get better when he's being shot at. It's going to get even worse. I understand that he is getting used to a new pistol, but proper instruction would correct his grip and make his shooting better.

I guess with a name like marksman13, you’re gonna have an opinion. But the shooting, which may or may not get better, is more than acceptable for combat use. That’s a standard qualification target. Every hit in the Grey is 2 points. Could he shoot better? Sure. Will he? Doubt it. This was a qualification for guys who
Were ordered to turn in their weapon for a new one. He’s got maybe a few years left before retirement, at best. He’s gonna qualify twice a year until then and that’s it

And I highly doubt that guy, or any other officer who is turning in his wheelgun is anywhere near the street.

 

[marksman13]

I guess with a name like marksman13, you’re gonna have an opinion. But the shooting, which may or may not get better, is more than acceptable for combat use. That’s a standard qualification target. Every hit in the Grey is 2 points. Could he shoot better? Sure. Will he? Doubt it. This was a qualification for guys who
Were ordered to turn in their weapon for a new one. He’s got maybe a few years left before retirement, at best. He’s gonna qualify twice a year until then and that’s it

And I highly doubt that guy, or any other officer who is turning in his wheelgun is anywhere near the street.

I have an opinion and my opinion is that people who carry a gun for a living should be very proficient with a gun. I don't hold myself or others to minimum standards.

 

[Homerboy]

I have an opinion and my opinion is that people who carry a gun for a living should be very proficient with a gun. I don't hold myself or others to minimum standards.

Sounds good. Ever hear the term “carried a lot and shot little” or “holster wear but still tight” to describe a PD trade-in? There’s a reason for that. Two qualifications a year at 150 rounds each time is about it for most police departments.

Members of a gun forum are not representatives of the general gun owners, much less police officers. We shoot more often than most. I got into reloading my own to shoot more. So I agree the picture shows mediocre shooting skills at best. But it’s about all you can expect from 90% or more of cops or civilians.

As I said before, that is a man sized torso target. Those hits represent he’s dead. That’s all that is expected. Any more than that and you’re quadrupling your firearms training budget and no dept is gonna do that.

And the original picture looks like they’re shooting at 15 yards. That’s acceptable for 45 feet. Could be better for sure, but I don’t see any holes outside of the interior gray area that represents a hit.

 

[Blue Feather]

I believe newcomers to handguns and LEO should be concerned primarily with the safe and accurate use of a sidearm.

That said. I’m no so sure the old mindset of “ If six or seven rounds won’t take care of it, you don’t need a handgun in the first place. “. The reason I say this we are faced with the threats of well armed mass shooters, terrorists and gang bangers who will have high capacity mags.

The role of police is to protect and serve and I want them equipped to be able to do this in the wake of modern threats. The Glock 19 with an NY trigger is a good choice IMHO. Let those who have carried Revolvers continue to do so and then Grandfather the revo out except as a back up weapon.

 

[Homerboy]

I believe newcomers to handguns and LEO should be concerned primarily with the safe and accurate use of a sidearm.

That said. I’m no so sure the old mindset of “ If six or seven rounds won’t take care of it, you don’t need a handgun in the first place. “. The reason I say this we are faced with the threats of well armed mass shooters, terrorists and gang bangers who will have high capacity mags.

The role of police is to protect and serve and I want them equipped to be able to do this in the wake of modern threats. The Glock 19 with an NY trigger is a good choice IMHO. Let those who have carried Revolvers continue to do so and then Grandfather the revo out except as a back up weapon.

I agree. 3-4 years from now they would all be gone. Youngest guy with one today has completed 26 years of service. That Lt. with the Service Six is in his 32nd year. Cops are superstitious about their gear. NYPD ones especially. We stepped up to a table and had 2 minutes to handle them all and choose one. You just knew which one it would be by feeling it. Then we got a money order to pay for it. There was a real personal connection there. Which is why 29 cops have refused the offer of a free gun and three days at the range to keep theirs.

 

[marksman13]

Sounds good. Ever hear the term “carried a lot and shot little” or “holster wear but still tight” to describe a PD trade-in? There’s a reason for that. Two qualifications a year at 150 rounds each time is about it for most police departments.

Members of a gun forum are not representatives of the general gun owners, much less police officers. We shoot more often than most. I got into reloading my own to shoot more. So I agree the picture shows mediocre shooting skills at best. But it’s about all you can expect from 90% or more of cops or civilians.

As I said before, that is a man sized torso target. Those hits represent he’s dead. That’s all that is expected. Any more than that and you’re quadrupling your firearms training budget and no dept is gonna do that.

And the original picture looks like they’re shooting at 15 yards. That’s acceptable for 45 feet. Could be better for sure, but I don’t see any holes outside of the interior gray area that represents a hit.

I never said that he wouldn't qualify with that target. I also never said that I believe most cops shoot better than he does. I said, and I still say, that anyone carrying a firearm as part of their daily routine should be more proficient than what is being displayed on that target. I'm fully aware that most are not, especially cops.

 

[Homerboy]

I never said that he wouldn't qualify with that target. I also never said that I believe most cops shoot better than he does. I said, and I still say, that anyone carrying a firearm as part of their daily routine should be more proficient than what is being displayed on that target. I'm fully aware that most are not, especially cops.

I think he should too. But the reality is that the vast majority of people can’t shoot any better. Becoming seriously tight in your groups takes time and money spent, and the vast majority of those who carry a gun won’t spend the time or money. Just the reality of it.

I tried to get my wife shooting more. She’s just not into it much. At 10 yards, the holes were literally all over the paper. She said there was something wrong with the gun. I took it and put them all in a playing card I stapled to the heart of the target. Most people aren’t gonna put the time in. Just a fact of life.

 

[RetiredUSNChief]

I could care less what sidearm any police department decides to carry. I care when the government tells ME what I can and can't have.

If the NYPD doesn't want officers to carry revolvers, fine by me.

 

[Robert]

That sounds like a perfect closing post.