Oakland CA, Police advise store owners not to fight back.

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jsalcedo

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Police Warn Against 'Vigilante' Behavior

POSTED: 3:00 pm PST November 29, 2005

OAKLAND, Calif. -- As investigators try to determine who was involved in the brazen attacks at two neighborhood stores and the arson of one of the shops, police and city officials on Tuesday urged other liquor merchants and store owners not to purchase firearms or engage in "vigilante" behavior.

In a statement, Oakland Police said it would be counterproductive for owners to arm themselves, but promised protection for merchants. And Oakland City Council member Desley Brooks discouraged merchants from arming themselves for protection, saying "It's the same type of behavior these (vandals) engage in.

"I wouldn't want people to expose themselves to harm," Brooks said.

About a dozen men dressed in suits and bow ties stormed into the New York Market and the San Pablo Liquor and Market last Wednesday. Vandals smashed liquor bottles and refrigerators and toppled food racks. They questioned why a Muslim-owned store would sell alcoholic drinks when it is against the teachings of Islam.

The incident at San Pablo Liquor was caught on surveillance tape.

Early Monday morning, the New York Market was gutted by fire and a clerk was abducted from the front of the store. Abdel Hamdan told police he was kidnapped around midnight, forced into the trunk of his car and locked inside for approximately 13 hours. He was found unharmed Monday afternoon in a grocery store parking lot in nearby El Cerrito.

Oakland police are seeking warrants against six suspects on charges including terrorist threats, felony vandalism, conspiracy and robbery.

Police had no suspects in the arson, which was reported about 1 a.m. Monday. They have refused to say whether they believe the blaze at New York Market was connected to last week's vandalism.

Markets that sell alcohol and cigarettes in high crime communities are often viewed as nuisances because they attract alcoholics and drug users. But such markets are often the only places where neighborhood residents can purchase fixtures like milk and paper towels.

Mohammed Ahmed, 30, had only worked at San Pablo Liquor for about a week when the attacks occurred. Police cruisers now patrol the front of the shop.

"I'm scared but I have to work," Ahmed said Monday as two police cars sat outside.

Ahmed said the vandals marched into the shop and asked him if he was Muslim. The men then asked Ahmed why he was selling alcohol to the black community.

The group spent about 10 minutes trashing several large refrigerators packed with beer and wine, Ahmed said. The men then told Ahmed they'd return.

Another Oakland store owner, Sam Wong of Sam's Liquor Store, said he wasn't worried about the spate of attacks and wasn't taking additional precautions. He said he doesn't sell fortified wine like many small urban markets and didn't think he'd be viewed as a target.

"I'm not worried that they are going to attack me -- my business is very legit," he said.

Brooks said she hopes the vandalism, which was initially linked by some to the Nation of Islam, sparks discussions about race relations in Oakland. Police said Monday that the Nation of Islam was not involved in the vandalism.

"I'm sitting here looking at e-mails from citizens who haven't found out that the Nation of Islam wasn't involved," she said. "Clearly there needs to be a dialogue."

She added, "The hype was that the Nation of Islam was caught doing something wrong. If a white man in a bow tie and suit had committed the crime would they have associated this with the Nation of Islam?"

Oakland Deputy Police Chief Howard Jordan has declined to say whether a separate black Muslim group, which operates the Your Black Muslim Bakery store chain and whose members also wear suits and bow ties, was under investigation.

In January 1993, Muslims affiliated with the bakery were involved in a similar incident at a Richmond store, according to police.

http://www.nbc11.com/news/5429519/detail.html
 
urged other liquor merchants and store owners not to purchase firearms or engage in "vigilante" behavior.
And Oakland City Council member Desley Brooks discouraged merchants from arming themselves for protection, saying "It's the same type of behavior these (vandals) engage in.
No, it is not, you digusting human being. Defending your life and property is not "vigilante" behavior. It is not the same thing as robbing another man's business. I am so tired of this "curl up and give the bad man what he wants" crap. These people are frightened little animals, and they want the rest of us to be as well. I can't take it anymore.

Another Oakland store owner, Sam Wong of Sam's Liquor Store, said he wasn't worried about the spate of attacks and wasn't taking additional precautions. He said he doesn't sell fortified wine like many small urban markets and didn't think he'd be viewed as a target.

"I'm not worried that they are going to attack me -- my business is very legit," he said.
That guy needs to think a little bit harder.
 
Ditto, Dasmi.

Oakland Police... promised protection for merchants.
I wonder how long that will last. And do merchants need to be vandalized and robbed first to qualify for the protection? :rolleyes:
 
I said it once and I'll say it again. Anyone who would break a bottle of perfectly good Jim Beam should be takin' the Big Dirt Nap.

That's lower than whale crap, and that's at the bottom of the ocean!:cuss:
Biker
 
Bobarino,
that can't be, this lady here has an email saying it wasn't the nation of Islam.

Brooks said she hopes the vandalism, which was initially linked by some to the Nation of Islam, sparks discussions about race relations in Oakland. Police said Monday that the Nation of Islam was not involved in the vandalism.

"I'm sitting here looking at e-mails from citizens who haven't found out that the Nation of Islam wasn't involved," she said. "Clearly there needs to be a dialogue."

A dialogue. Clearly. Of course, why didn't anyone else think of that? We just need to listen to the criminals! Holy crap! This could end crime around the world!
 
What sort of moron works in a liquor store WITHOUT a gun in the first place?

Its not like thug type crime in a liquor store in unprecedented, you know.
 
Isn't Oakland the current roosting place for the former Governor Moonbeam (AKA Jerry Brown), leader of the Intergalatic Screwball Squad? That would help explain this strange response to these gang vandals - that guy is really a major fruitcake.
 
Maybe THIS is an example of why we don't all fall down and worship every time a cop posts something...:p
 
I must have missed something. Were the store owners proposing to hang them from the lamp posts after they caught them?

Another obvious idiot who doesn't understand the meaning of the word "vigilante."
 
Maybe THIS is an example of why we don't all fall down and worship every time a cop posts something...

Careful, you might be labeled a cop bigot like I was.

I fully expect it to be considered full fledged hate crime in a few years. ;)
 
jsalcedo said:
Careful, you might be labeled a cop bigot like I was.

I fully expect it to be considered full fledged hate crime in a few years. ;)

LOL

I have absolutely nothing against cops. But I don't make any assumptions either way when I don't know someone.

I've been in a cop's apartment, where there was a room full of pot plants. This was 20 years ago, and I don't even remember his name, so don't come after me, anyone. A squeaky-clean good friend of mine was denied a job in California because, from what they told him based on his psych eval, he thought too much about what is right and wrong.

I've also met and known some cops who were simply the best sorts of people, and I was glad and grateful they were on the force.

When people talk about doing what they're "ordered to do" it doesn't sit well with me. Those are people who will be coming to disarm us one day, even though they, themselves, think that it's wrong.

What's interesting about M-Rex, though, is that he posted something after all those exchanges, saying he actually asked the same questions we did. I'd have had a completely different impression of what he wrote, had he said this first rather than last.
 
Jordan said police were still investigating whether the vandalism was connected to an arson fire that destroyed New York Market early Monday and the reported kidnapping of store owner Abdel "Tony" Hamdan around the time of the blaze.

so let me get this straight:

Someone comes in and busts the place up on Wed the 23rd, then someone torches the place Mon the 28th.

Folks, this sounds more and more like a "protection" racket to me. Methinks that religion might be a cover for a run of the mill criminal enterprise.
 
dasmi said:
No, it is not, you digusting human being. Defending your life and property is not "vigilante" behavior. It is not the same thing as robbing another man's business. I am so tired of this "curl up and give the bad man what he wants" crap. These people are frightened little animals, and they want the rest of us to be as well. I can't take it anymore.


That guy needs to think a little bit harder.

+100

It is the epitome of stupidity to tell someone that they shouldn't defend what they own or love.

As much as it disgusts me to say it, if 'the good guys' are instructing 'the people' to give 'the bad guys' whatever they want, why exactly do we need 'the good guys'?:confused:
 
I'm with dasmi on this one. This is the sorta crap I've been talking about in my thread "Whatever happened to....."
 
ArmedBear said:
LOL

I have absolutely nothing against cops. But I don't make any assumptions either way when I don't know someone.

I've been in a cop's apartment, where there was a room full of pot plants. This was 20 years ago, and I don't even remember his name, so don't come after me, anyone. A squeaky-clean good friend of mine was denied a job in California because, from what they told him based on his psych eval, he thought too much about what is right and wrong.

I've also met and known some cops who were simply the best sorts of people, and I was glad and grateful they were on the force.

When people talk about doing what they're "ordered to do" it doesn't sit well with me. Those are people who will be coming to disarm us one day, even though they, themselves, think that it's wrong.

What's interesting about M-Rex, though, is that he posted something after all those exchanges, saying he actually asked the same questions we did. I'd have had a completely different impression of what he wrote, had he said this first rather than last.


Why are you talking about me behind my proverbial back? Do you still think all cops are jack-booted thugs simply because of little ol' me?
 
In a statement, Oakland Police said it would be counterproductive for owners to arm themselves, but promised protection for merchants. And Oakland City Council member Desley Brooks discouraged merchants from arming themselves for protection, saying "It's the same type of behavior these (vandals) engage in.

Self-defense is the same type of behavior as predation? What fools!

I find myself missing the temperate climate and beaches less and less.
 
dasmi said:
That guy needs to think a little bit harder.

My thoughts exactly dasmi!

Why not recommend leaving the door open and the cash on the counter? Such idiocy makes me firmly believe California is completely moronic!
 
jsalcedo said:
urged other liquor merchants and store owners not to purchase firearms or engage in "vigilante" behavior.
What was that? Buy a bat suit?

jsalcedo said:
discouraged merchants from arming themselves for protection, saying "It's the same type of behavior these (vandals) engage in.
Translation: Please bend over

jsalcedo said:
"I wouldn't want people to expose themselves to harm," Brooks said.
Right, and they want them to do what?

jsalcedo said:
About a dozen men dressed in suits and bow ties stormed into the New York Market and the San Pablo Liquor and Market last Wednesday.
I KNEW IT! -It Sounds to be the work of This Fellow
btas_penguin.jpg
 
"I'm not worried that they are going to attack me -- my business is very legit," he said.

That guy needs to think a little bit harder.
You guys might have missed something here. The guy's name is Sam Wong. While he seems unwilling to discuss it, the Korean grocer types have been famous for defending their stores with a hail of hot lead since the LA riots. I would be willing to bet that Mr. Wong isn't worried because he has a 12Ga. behind the counter and a .357 under his apron.
 
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